tyberius

It's not just the size. It's the fuel burn on the long route. ANA has saved 21% on fuel every time they swapped in a 787 for a 767 on long hauls.

Hard to know what the exact burn rate of a laden swallow, er, 767 is but say 2600 kg/hour, so at 20% less, saving 510kg/hr approximately. Jet fuel 2.87/gallon, 0.81kg/L, 3.87 liters/gallon ~= $9/kg, so say $10 CAD/kg.

So every flight hour you replace a 767 with a 787 is $5,000 in your pocket. Replace a 12 hour long haul then and you have $60,000 in your pocket per day, fairly reliable, and as fuel costs go up so do your savings, independent of how you can sell the seats. Over a year then $22 million in savings if flying every day on that route, before getting to adding the additional customers you can fly.

zkzkz

It's worse than that due to the rocket equation. The plane has to carry its own fuel so on a longer flight every extra hour increases the amount of fuel you burn for all the previous hours as well. The longer the flight the more fuel you have to carry, the more you save --in every hour, not just the extra hour-- using a more fuel efficient plane.

PLeblond

I agree about the fuel savings although I'm going tract your math. 'I was under the immersion that there would be no math'.

You do need to include fixed costs and since those 20+ year old 767s are probably long paid for, there is a certain savings involved there. Not sure how exactly to amortize a $200M airplane though.

I think the decision will be a combination of potential savings (length of flight), current revenue (if a flight permits charging $200 more per passenger x 200 passengers on board, that's $40k right there) and fleet availability (if you need more than 1 airplane to cover the route and you only have 1 available).

After all that, from what I have been hearing from the Bens et. al., there is a lot of thought that goes behind all their decisions and they are quite sharp, so they'll make the right choice.

It sure is fun to speculate, though. I just want one out of YUL PDQ!!!!

ac-YUL

There's a few reasons why you're seeing more A330 flights in YUL:

1) An A330 pilot base was opened in YUL this summer, in addition to the 777 pilot base. There is no more mainline 767 pilot base in YUL, just rouge. While I wouldn't say the mainline 767 is "done" in YUL, expect to see them as the exception rather than the rule going forward.

2) The 777s are most efficiently deployed flying from Asia to YYZ to Europe, since all Asia trips from YYZ require more than 1 aircraft, so it's efficient to pair it with Europe trip. The A330 fleet is deployed on shorter missions, which is ideally suited to the relatively short-haul Europe and domestic flights from YUL.

3) By flying A330s on YYZ-YUL, we were able to increase the capacity on the market without adding extra trips. In addition, with the 77P on YYZ-YVR now, the A330 that was flying that route can now fly YUL-YVR - increasing capacity on that route at strategic times.

Regarding the 787, there have been a lot of questions as to when we will see them in YUL. For the same reasons mentioned above, it will be a bit of time before they make it to YUL regularly - probably not before late 2015 at the earliest. The aircraft will be concentrated mainly in YYZ/YVR during the ramp-up period. This is most efficient for aircraft rotations and crewing - pilot bases will be in those two stations.

PLeblond

Thanks for the information. I appreciate the info.

I understand the rationale and indeed, on the 'Official AC thread' Ben Sr. mentioned that 787s would replace current 767 routes before developing new destinations and that YUL would need to wait a while to feel the '787' love. Still, a guy can dream about flying on an AC 787 without needing to connect on something old and redundant. Life is a compromise I guess.

yerffej201

So excited for YVR NRT to go on the 787!

siaa380

I wish this was an option when I was booking my last *A USDM reward. I would have booked this flight instead (I don't really want to pay the change fee). Hopefully ANA upgages their 767 on their YVR-NRT flight to a 787

TemboOne

Just glanced at reservations on ac.com and there is no availability to book PE to/from NRT on the 788. Looks like a tech glitch that needs to be fixed

An attempt to find PE on matrix only brings up "Business (P)".

Used test dates of Dec 17 for AC3 and Dec 30 for AC4.

rumblefox

what type of 767 does NH115 use on this route?

ac-YUL

We are aware - it's an IT issue. It's being worked on as I type.

TemboOne

No problem.

When we come across little glitches like this we point them out in case the problem has gone unnoticed.

Don't know how your tech folks manage to keep up with all the changes and equipment subs!

siaa380

767-300ER with the cradle business class which is angle flat

YYCspotter

Wonder when YYC-NRT will go 787?

yyznomad

Well, (the reverse) on AC869 LHR YYZ has been the 788 for the last bit... (which implies that LHR YYZ with 788 exists already at the moment, unless there is some weird shuffle that I'm not aware of)

yyznomad

They're probably not 100% confident that they will actually get the 788 for that route by then