Ferrari

I don't think AC are playing very fair when it comes to giving out the upgrades as per the member benefits.

I am playing the AC lotto game for my flight this weekend...all of a sudden (7 days before) the available C class disappears. It was showing C4 /J9

I have called everyday, but no luck...its at the gate.!. the agent said.

The agent told me that Y is oversold, and the reason that C was put back in to J was because they think they can sell the J...

Of course the public will want to pay $8000 instead of flying the competitors @ 1800....how foolish they really are..

Well, If I don't get it I am not flying, that simple, I have a fully flexible ticket...

This is already starting to smell of Cap controls...
For sure they will be taking this away next year.!.

Flyaway

Where are you going? What route are you referring to?

Andrew Yiu

I will never play the "Gate Aerolotto". With one of your flights showing only 6 J seats left, it's really risky (and your flight is not too oversold so they probably won't need to bump people off).

Do you really believe that rules will always be followed when there are 1 J seats left and you're on the waitlist?

I've been on several YVR/HKG flights this year that are showing C0 up til departure date and the J cabin was 50%+ empty.

Fly Boy

Of course C class was reduced to zero. Otherwise they might run out of J seats for vacationing flight attendants, whose seats are only assigned at the gate.

This should not come as a surprise. Why bother with AC...

?

Ferrari

Flyaway.
Don't really want to give out that infp on FT...to many from AC check in...

But...The flight is down to J6, and thats a crock os $hit, it was shouwing c4 , then 8 days before it vanished...

I'm sure its for deadheading crew...

My firends that were waiting to buy their H tickets seven days before just skipped over to UA.
Swines got a blinding fare and used to SWU..., Just via LAX ...HNL is the closest want to get to the US thank you...and that bad enough!

AC are just plain greedy, sell the seats fill the plane and be done with it...rather than go with empty seats.

Shareholder

Have you checked availability for both legs of the flight? Although you don't want to reveal your destination, it is hard for us to comment without such knowledge. However, I can guess at it, and even in the CP days, this route was notorious for not confirming advance upgrades, in part because it carries two different loads: one into its mid-point refuelling stop, and another out as some passengers offload and others board. Could very well be there is no C space on one leg, thus removing what may have been available on a through basis only days earlier. And since a part of this route is a major business one, I can understand AC not wishing to release J seats should there be any revenue buys in the next few days.

Remember, AC is also dealing with accommodating passengers who had been booked on their other service to that country, which is about to end next month. This also adds to load forecasting pressures on both cabins.

So before you blame it on a greedy airline and deadheading crews, consider the variables AC must deal with in winding down service from this part of the world. But as I noted, this is not much different from when CP flew this <<secret>> route. I used to have to wait until the day before, even though I was supposed to have a much longer window to confirm my upgrades on CP as a C+Gold elite.

Ferrari

SH.

You are correct in your assumption, this is the first time it has not been available prior.
I except the reasoning, but there is more than one carrier to this location.
And according to the agent is like this on both legs.

Plus the other route finishes a bit later than the 3rd.

But why did they take away C 8 days before...?
I don't mean to be secret...you just never know...I don't want food poisoning again1

ALW

It's reasonable to believe they pulled the C inventory to stop upgrades, but without commenting on the fairness of that, is there a cheap (revenue) C fare on this route? Part of the problem may be that they're using the same fare class for both upgrades and a cheap Business Class ticket [and the sudden change in availability reflects their willingness to sell the C fares but not upgrade into them].

This is not to deny that on some routes there's effectively no guaranteed upgrade space available.

andrew


[This message has been edited by Andrew Webber (edited 07-29-2002).]

Shareholder

I just checked what I assume is your flight for next Monday night, and it is open on the second leg, showing J9 and Y and its various subcodes as 9s. The problem is the first leg ex-YVR which is sold out in all Y classes, and shows just J2. [Sorry about giving away your secret destination.] I have not pulled up a seating chart to see what J actually looks like.

In the cases when this route was operated by CP, Empress would email me the availability and I would call CP res when I got to the SYD airport hotel the night before the flight, then call to confirm or get waitlisted if I had not already done so at the 72-hour window we used to have.

I know this is an anxiety raising experience, but AC could also have shut out C inventory completely on these flights had we still time-of-booking upgrades in anticipation of these load situations. Afterall all, there are still people who do pay $5K for these front cabin seats. I would call back at the 48-hour point, and at least see about confirming the second leg, since those seats might get released.

Ferrari

SH.
I'm booked on for the 3rd...I have the Penfolds clinic for the 6th, so Monday won't work.

I guess I have to wait and see, the 3rd is @ J5 the 4th which is do able is still @ J9

Why don't they just give me the seat, afterall i am suposed to be their best customer (se)

oh hum



[This message has been edited by Ferrari (edited 07-29-2002).]

AC*SE

Ferrari,

Their best customer is somebody who pays full-J. Everybody else--SEs upgrading, C class RTW's, discount C class, even deadheading FAs take second place.

Shareholder

I can now see your problem even more clearly, since you are flying on the prime day for business travel to that part of the world: depart NAmerica on Saturday night and arrive in time to do a full day of business Monday. Even more reason AC will keep J available to potential full fare customers until the very last minute. On any other day, there might be some flexibility, but on this route it is like trying to get an upgrade on a flight out of Ottawa on a Thursday afternoon/evening flight, or to any other business destination on Sunday evening.

AC*SE put it quite rightly: AC's best customer is the SE, or other customer, who is willing to buy a full fare ticket in J or Y on Friday because they found out they need to be down there on Monday morning.

In all my years of travel, I have learned never to expect an upgrade at peak business travel periods on certain routes. If it comes, it will be appreciated. But if I do want to upgrade for certain, I will always book on low demand days of the week, even if it means travelling a day or two earlier than I have to be somewhere.

Add to this the fact that this is a long holiday weekend making it a high demand period for summer travellers to the intermediate destination, which some people informed me the other week, was a very attractive summer vacation spot because of its low humidity, and you''ve got more reasons why the flight it likely to be as heavily booked ex-YVR as it is.

Andrew Yiu

We're not stupid. We know an airline's best customer is the ones who pay full fare.

This is not the point of the original post. The point of the post is that there are often so many J seats remaining on a flight less than 7 days before departure yet AC zeros it out. What does that mean? Does it mean they are trying to stop SEs from upgrading until the last possible minute even though they know that there are no way in hell they can sell all the J seats?

Andrew14302

BINGO! When the pain finally gets too much, the competition is just waiting for y'all to come on over!

Shareholder

You guys are focussing your attentions on two or three international routes which are the type of flights where it is extremely prudent for AC to keep seats open for last minute, full fare sale. There is limited daily service to these cities, and heavy demand at certain times of the week and the year. If you looked at 95% of flights every day, you would likely find this is not the case, that only selected routes have been imbargoed for last minute sale.

It is no wonder AC wants to protect its revenue on these major long haul routes. If nobody shows up for those $5K seats, you will likely get one for $2K. If someone does show at the last minute, they will have made an additional $5K. This is not a stupid decision on AC's part. Fine, they may ultimately lose your business, but they have satisfied someone paying more than twice as much, and is willing to do so in the future. Who would you rather have as a regular customer?

Based on Empress' many posts over the year, it has been clear that AC zeroes out these key Pacific routes, so the lottery becomes even more of a crap shoot. I am sure he picks flights on the days he knows competition for front cabin seats is going to be minimal to maximize his chances. Otherwise, we pay for a Hospitality Class seat, that is what we are guaranteed. On 95% of flights, the system work on the 7-day advance release. But there have to be route by route exceptions when commercial considerations are weighed. These two key Pacific routes are where the exceptions are applied.

Next time, fly UA, buy some SWUs, and sit in the middle cabin. [UA configures its planes with twice as many J/C seats as does AC, so your chances at upgrading should be much better.] But I suggest you read some of the recent horror stories about UA on the forum here, and over on MoreMiles.org.