Back in February, when Rupert appeared on Flyertalk, there were the questions of managing C class. Instead of showing J9 C9, manage C class by showing just a few seats available. Rupert had indicated that because of system limitations they could not manage it.

This past Tuesday I flew from YYZ to FRA. J was wide open and we pushed off the gate with 15 open seats in J. I was the only person in the 5th row and no one was behind me in row 6 (A330). Day of travel, the flight showed C9. Next week I'm flying from TPE to YVR. I was originally booked on UA (TPE UA SFO UA YVR). C class has been going from C5 (2 weeks ago) to bouncing between C0 and C2 about 3 times in the past week. But I did get C class on the AC flight and did switch to it.

I was assuming that it is a computer program that is managing C class (i.e. as the back sells, it adjusts C). But the more and more I look at it, the more I think this is not the case and that it is managed by yield managment.

And if this is the truly the case the C class is managed by someone, then C class can be managed to allow for a small number available for upgrade at time of booking.

On 09AUG I have to fly to CGN (Koln) & HEL (Helsinki). I was thinking of flying from YUL to FRA. There are two flights to FRA that day (aircraft used to go to MEL is redeployed to FRA for Aug & Sep) and both are showing J9 C0 and 9s across the board for the remaining inventory. If it was a computer program managing C class then there should be C class available. When I look at the seat map in PTO..J class is wide open. So...I guess it's UA on that trip.

Just an observation.

Cheers




[This message has been edited by sing-along (edited 07-19-2002).]

There are many city pairs that also have 'C' class for sale and this is probably one of the major reasons for the fluctuation. Remember that when most people make a J/C class booking, they won't bother with seat assignments until they go ahead with ticketing.

I am pretty sure it's a computer program that manages C class and it's pretty stupid too. For example, if a flight was an A320 (20 J seats) showing J5C0 and the flight switches to a domestic 763 (38 J seats), it'll showing J9C0 even though the size of the J cabin just increased by almost 100% and it's a day before departure (this is for a flight coming up this weekend).

Some days I think their yield management system for C class is so simple that it contains one line of code: random (0, 9) for C class so there's no logical explanation why it's C0 on a flight that's completely empty in J!

On the other hand, UA's computer system for releasing international upgrades is pretty smart. If the J cabin is empty enough, it will release a whole bunch of upgrade and award inventory exactly 3 days before departure and it clears the waitlist by status. (That means the computer system will automatically review each flight when it reaches a particular # of hrs before departure which I doubt AC's computers are capable of.) If the flight is overbooked, it will also close out the upgrade inventory for op upgrades at the airport.

With AC, there is really no sure way of predicting C class on international flights which makes Aerolotto that much harder to win.



[This message has been edited by Empress (edited 07-19-2002).]

Thanks Empress. I keep forgetting that C class is a 'catch all' inventory class where AC can sell the seat, have it used for upgrades or AC Mgt travelling on business.

As an owner of a software company your comment about the single line of code made me smile since I have no doubt that it is true!

I like UA's way of allocating upgrades. It's by status and the month/year you enrolled with MP. Therefore, it rightfully allocates the upgrade seats to those who have been long time loyal customers to UA. I've been a member of MP for 11 years now which should put me in the middle of the pack when it comes to upgrades.

At least in HKG, and most stations, the upgrades are determined prior to boarding so that when they put your boarding pass through the reader it will advise the agent that you need a new boarding pass for your upgrade seat. Unlike AC's way of allocating upgrades at the gate....have everyone board and then deal with the standbys...so much for loyalty.

You're right about Aerolotto on International flights. My tickets normally have a 7 day advance purchase (RTW) so I know before I have it ticketed whether I can upgrade. If I can, I will, otherwise, it's UA and Y+ for my flights. My transpacific flights are always booked on UA and then I wait and see if I can switch. If I can't, I'll use 25k miles and upgrade to J class which is a great deal for the 14h15m HKG-ORD flight.

Cheers


Cheers

AC's problem is station by station inconsistency vis a vis upgrading. I have received op upgrades at check in at some stations, and on the plane at others [Concierge comes on board with new boarding pass]. Sometimes there is a page in the MLL. Least effective is at the gate, since most elites only get down to the gate as the flight is boarding, and may have missed a call on ops.

Empress is correct to note that AC sells advance booking ExecClass on many routes, and these come from C inventory. As do the Diners and Aeroplan [non award] two-for-one tickets.

The program that manages the inventory for C class is the same as the one for all other classes [J,Y,B,Q etc].

I suspect the problem is that no one has taken the time to actually work out what a good "curve" for C class should be and they have not bothered to tweak the program to release seats in a decent [our opinion] order. The agents that monitor the RM system cannot possibly follow each flight individually and they must rely on "Auto-pilot". They then follow reports from the system to go in and make adjustments as they see fit. Some agents are incredibly good at this and some are just so-so. They spend most of there time working on "problem" flights or sectors and do not look at each one.

One of the main problems with the C class route is that it is used for a number of different objectives [executive business travel, Aeroplan special awards, Upgrades, regular sales and Sales Promotions]. These are not co-operative objectives and are likely difficult to program allotments based upon history.

If C class was not the J class dumping ground then it would likely be better, but that is what Rupert was implying.