TPAC Tango: goodbye AC!
Apr 29, 2012, 11:16 am
#136
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
....but this will have my bum sitting in an EVA flight to direct to TPE, instead of transiting thru PVG or NRT, on the off chance I might sit up front.
I said this before...Starwood gives me lifetime PLAT for my loyalty, and AC gives me a digit up my rectum for 12 straight years of E and SE.
I said this before...Starwood gives me lifetime PLAT for my loyalty, and AC gives me a digit up my rectum for 12 straight years of E and SE.
Apr 29, 2012, 12:38 pm
#137
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,726
Apr 29, 2012, 6:03 pm
#138
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,161
And likewise to other's, I see. You can have your opinion, but I cannot? Give me a break. If the issues that you raise have merit to be discussed, they have merit to be replied to no matter the nature of the reply. What gets me is the inability to discern between a right and a privelege - companies change rules all the time, and that is life.
My point is this:
You cannot control what other people say on this board. Whether or not you are "sick" of other people's opinions will not change those opinions, nor will it stop those opinions from being shared. Furthermore, nobody cares if you are "sick" of their opinions. They are not here to cater to your personal distaste.
They're here to share useful information, and air grievances.
I am only offering advice, in good humor, which is to learn to live with your sense of distaste over their airing of grievances.
Now, I didn't tell you that you're not entitled to an opinion, or whether or not you're entitled to share it, just that trying to make everyone else comply with what you think is reasonable is futile, since the site can't comply to everyone's personal ideal when it's by definition a mixed bag of opinions.
So it's kind of like freedom. You have freedom up to the point where your choices start impinging on someone else's freedom.
Can't make them shut up, and the guy who's trying to make them shut up, is the only guy you're entitled to ask to shut up.
Apr 29, 2012, 6:33 pm
#139
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: YQR
Programs: Aeroplan - E75, Delta Sky Miles - Silver, HHonors - Gold, Club Carlson Silver
Posts: 561
You are hypersensitive.
My point is this:
You cannot control what other people say on this board. Whether or not you are "sick" of other people's opinions will not change those opinions, nor will it stop those opinions from being shared. Furthermore, nobody cares if you are "sick" of their opinions. They are not here to cater to your personal distaste.
They're here to share useful information, and air grievances.
I am only offering advice, in good humor, which is to learn to live with your sense of distaste over their airing of grievances.
Now, I didn't tell you that you're not entitled to an opinion, or whether or not you're entitled to share it, just that trying to make everyone else comply with what you think is reasonable is futile, since the site can't comply to everyone's personal ideal when it's by definition a mixed bag of opinions.
So it's kind of like freedom. You have freedom up to the point where your choices start impinging on someone else's freedom.
Can't make them shut up, and the guy who's trying to make them shut up, is the only guy you're entitled to ask to shut up.
My point is this:
You cannot control what other people say on this board. Whether or not you are "sick" of other people's opinions will not change those opinions, nor will it stop those opinions from being shared. Furthermore, nobody cares if you are "sick" of their opinions. They are not here to cater to your personal distaste.
They're here to share useful information, and air grievances.
I am only offering advice, in good humor, which is to learn to live with your sense of distaste over their airing of grievances.
Now, I didn't tell you that you're not entitled to an opinion, or whether or not you're entitled to share it, just that trying to make everyone else comply with what you think is reasonable is futile, since the site can't comply to everyone's personal ideal when it's by definition a mixed bag of opinions.
So it's kind of like freedom. You have freedom up to the point where your choices start impinging on someone else's freedom.
Can't make them shut up, and the guy who's trying to make them shut up, is the only guy you're entitled to ask to shut up.
Apr 29, 2012, 9:04 pm
#140
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,161
I'm not impinging on your freedom to gripe, just exercising mine to say that I think the griping is old hat. I'm not sensitive - I think that, in the end, it is rather funny to watch this go round and round! And, to clarify, I agree with you that it is futile, but that doesn't mean that I am going to stop pointing out that I don't like it when I choose that freedom to speak up just like you have - enjoy the week ahead.
Apr 29, 2012, 11:01 pm
#141
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG (mind in YYZ)
Programs: MPC Green, AC Tangerine :)
Posts: 1,102
If your status is to never fall below Elite, in 2013 you will be entitled to the same recognition as those members who earn 50,000 Status Miles or 50 Status Flight Segments. Of course, you will still be entitled to qualify for a higher level of recognition based on your annual flight activities.
Apr 30, 2012, 3:37 am
#142
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Maker's Mark Ambassador
Posts: 263
Not surprised...
Maybe its just me, but I dont see anything very innovative in ACs latest changes. Other airlines have tried similar moves and made them stick. Frankly, when one compares the cost of a full-fare ticket against a deep discounted ticket, I think the difference in mileage earnings and loyalty rewards will only continue to increase.
I understand the OPs frustration as he may have felt he had a moral contract with AC. Nevertheless, there are plenty of very frequent Lattitude customers as well, and they could rightly make the point that they expect to be a few steps above and beyond Tango customers when it comes to rewarding loyalty. Perhaps AC believes that its Lattitude customers will appreciate the decreased competition for upgrades.
There are more and more companies requiring their employees to fly on the lowest ticket. Some are able to work within the system to fly their preferred carrier anyway, and some are not, but one cannot expect AC to adapt to every single situation. If a company isnt loyal to its vendors, the vendors have no reason whatsoever to extend their best service to that company.
My employer pays for its employees to fly upfront because we are expected to perform equally well at 9 in the morning whether we just stepped out of our bed at home or off a 14-hour flight. We have enough employees that our employer commits to a minimum spend on AC and our perks and privileges are spelled out in a very real contract, not a moral one. Perhaps the OP should suggest a similar contract to its employer. As far as I know, upfront travel isnt required as long as the minimum spend is high enough.
As for switching to UA, a quick click to the UA pages on flyertalk is enough to see that many of its elites are threatening to walk too. How many actually do is as much a guesswork as with ACs For having flown both this year, I must say I can't understand what the fuss is all about, but perhaps I am not well situated to judge. No matter what, I will take a senior AC crew over a senior UA crew any flight of the schedule...
$600 co-pay and 30k miles for a one-way upgrade from the (5?) lowest coach buckets between the US/Canada and Australia/New Zealand. Status doesn't waive co-pay on international flights.
To make life marginally better when hell breaks lose, whether it is getting to talk to an agent a little bit faster or bumping a status-less passenger off a flight so you can resume your trip sooner On AC, it also means calling on a Concierge whenever.
Oh and better awards/upgrade opportunities when you fly on your own dime too.
To cater to customers who don't care (as much as you do) about reward opportunities and mile accumulation, namely the majority of coach fliers who will never buy enough tickets in a year to get any status or recognition.
I understand the OPs frustration as he may have felt he had a moral contract with AC. Nevertheless, there are plenty of very frequent Lattitude customers as well, and they could rightly make the point that they expect to be a few steps above and beyond Tango customers when it comes to rewarding loyalty. Perhaps AC believes that its Lattitude customers will appreciate the decreased competition for upgrades.
There are more and more companies requiring their employees to fly on the lowest ticket. Some are able to work within the system to fly their preferred carrier anyway, and some are not, but one cannot expect AC to adapt to every single situation. If a company isnt loyal to its vendors, the vendors have no reason whatsoever to extend their best service to that company.
My employer pays for its employees to fly upfront because we are expected to perform equally well at 9 in the morning whether we just stepped out of our bed at home or off a 14-hour flight. We have enough employees that our employer commits to a minimum spend on AC and our perks and privileges are spelled out in a very real contract, not a moral one. Perhaps the OP should suggest a similar contract to its employer. As far as I know, upfront travel isnt required as long as the minimum spend is high enough.
As for switching to UA, a quick click to the UA pages on flyertalk is enough to see that many of its elites are threatening to walk too. How many actually do is as much a guesswork as with ACs For having flown both this year, I must say I can't understand what the fuss is all about, but perhaps I am not well situated to judge. No matter what, I will take a senior AC crew over a senior UA crew any flight of the schedule...
To make life marginally better when hell breaks lose, whether it is getting to talk to an agent a little bit faster or bumping a status-less passenger off a flight so you can resume your trip sooner On AC, it also means calling on a Concierge whenever.
Oh and better awards/upgrade opportunities when you fly on your own dime too.
To cater to customers who don't care (as much as you do) about reward opportunities and mile accumulation, namely the majority of coach fliers who will never buy enough tickets in a year to get any status or recognition.
May 2, 2012, 10:44 am
#143
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Programs: United MileagePlus Silver, Nexus, Global Entry
Posts: 8,804
Just booked a ticket YVR <-> YUL.
AC: $940, connections required, no AC status miles
WJ: $750, nonstop, no AC status miles
I realize AC doesn't want / need my business, but it still makes me scratch my noggin. I could probably squeeze the travel in on AC, but with no status miles (I couldn't care less about aeroplan miles) why expend the political capital with my travel coordinator for the extra (nearly) $200?
Oh well.
AC: $940, connections required, no AC status miles
WJ: $750, nonstop, no AC status miles
I realize AC doesn't want / need my business, but it still makes me scratch my noggin. I could probably squeeze the travel in on AC, but with no status miles (I couldn't care less about aeroplan miles) why expend the political capital with my travel coordinator for the extra (nearly) $200?
Oh well.
Last edited by gglave; May 2, 2012 at 11:15 am
May 2, 2012, 11:08 am
#145
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,510
As a travel agent, I can show you one workaround I've been doing with some customers who want to fly paid J on AC for sometimes less than half the AC price from its Canadian departure points. These Z fares from US gateway cities are many thousands less than the Canadian-origin fares - they are non-refundable, require a change fee and require some extra work on the customer's part (getting to the US gateway) so they are not for everyone, but plenty of folks are willing to do it in order to pocket a few thousand dollars.
We're also selling a lot of AC Z fares to US customers who would otherwise be stuck paying double to confirm Business Class on United, AA, Delta, etc.
While Air Canada may not value *your* business as much (being a Canadian with no other realistic TPAC options), they are going out of their way to poach US business from US carriers by offering discounted business class.
For example:
YYZ-HKG-YYZ in J - US$7563
BOS-YYZ-HKG-YYZ-BOS - US$5784
More dramatic savings to NRT and some of the Euro destinations, or YVR/TPAC. Even spending 300-400 on a Porter flight between YTZ and BOS (or EWR or ORD) or taking the train from YVR to SEA still puts thousands back in your pocket.
I am flying NRT-YYZ-SEA later this month for $1800, in TPAC J and transborder F, with a one-week layover in YYZ - a pretty good deal.
Connecting at YYZ/YVR is a non-issue (you don't re-clear Canadian Customs at the connecting point), and as long as you can legally enter the US, they are fine with a simple explanation about how you structured the ticket and you're flying right back to Toronto from the US destination.
Now having said that, I did a quick check on Tango vs Tango+ fares and found a few examples where the difference was pretty minimal (about $100 each way)...so it depends on the value you place on earning full mileage credit.
We're also selling a lot of AC Z fares to US customers who would otherwise be stuck paying double to confirm Business Class on United, AA, Delta, etc.
While Air Canada may not value *your* business as much (being a Canadian with no other realistic TPAC options), they are going out of their way to poach US business from US carriers by offering discounted business class.
For example:
YYZ-HKG-YYZ in J - US$7563
BOS-YYZ-HKG-YYZ-BOS - US$5784
More dramatic savings to NRT and some of the Euro destinations, or YVR/TPAC. Even spending 300-400 on a Porter flight between YTZ and BOS (or EWR or ORD) or taking the train from YVR to SEA still puts thousands back in your pocket.
I am flying NRT-YYZ-SEA later this month for $1800, in TPAC J and transborder F, with a one-week layover in YYZ - a pretty good deal.
Connecting at YYZ/YVR is a non-issue (you don't re-clear Canadian Customs at the connecting point), and as long as you can legally enter the US, they are fine with a simple explanation about how you structured the ticket and you're flying right back to Toronto from the US destination.
Now having said that, I did a quick check on Tango vs Tango+ fares and found a few examples where the difference was pretty minimal (about $100 each way)...so it depends on the value you place on earning full mileage credit.