Shareholder

I raised this point tangentally earlier this month after an experience I had on my flight from MUC to YYZ. Now I feel it is time to air the matter in its own right.

Does AC really have Preferred Seating for its elite members, and those paying full fare economy? The seat charts on ITN show the front section of Hospitality Class [about 3 to 5 rows depending upon aircraft type] marked out in green. And the Elite guide refers to "Preferred Seat Selection" in which we supposedly have "the choice of the best seats in our Hospitality cabin" regardless of fare paid, and including Aeroplan rewards.

But in practice, I have seen little evidence that this section is actually considered preferred by airline staff, be it res, check-in, or inflight. [Though, as I note elsewhere, at least one MLL agent appeared to know this.]

Nor is the practice of blocking off an empty seat next to elites practiced with any degree of regularity, though it has been considered another albeit unwritten benefit of mid and top tier elite status.

On my flight to LHR last week, the entire Preferred Section was filled, yet further back there were 8 or 9 rows in which the centre seats remained empty. It was clear from the appearance of those occupying most of the seats in the so-called Preferred Seating section, that they were neither elites, nor full fare passengers. So why was this section filled completely while the rear was quite open?

Do AC res or check-in staff know the policy for assigning these seats? I made careful seat selections, checking the ITN seating charts up to a day before the flight and both seats in the middle of the row that I had earlier selected were empty. Yet on the plane, as I noted, the front section was totally filled, while further back empty seats remained.

The same thing happened returning yesterday. In fact, when I checked into the MLL, the agent called me back to the desk to inform me that the middle seat [in the centre row of a 767] had been assigned to a mother with a baby. Was I sure I wanted to sit there? She then indicated the check-in agent must have assigned the seat, but she would move this passenger and keep the centre seat empty. Well, she did, but then another passenger was assigned this seat by check-in staff. As with the flight over, there were open seats further back, but AC staff insisted on filling every seat in the so-called Preferred Section. And again, the majority did not appear to be holding full fare tickets or be elite travellers.

So what is AC's real policy? Why advertise this benefit when the cabin is no more Preferred Seating than anywhere else in Hospitality?

Andrew Yiu

Maybe the benefit is no longer available? I looked over the SE booklet and the only thing that's related to seating is:

In fact, I couldn't find anything that say they will block off the seat next to a SE.

Also, in the last little while, when I make reservations for my friends and families, AC can always assign me seats from the front Y cabin, the so call preferred seating even though they had no status and I wasn't travelling with them. I think this is another sign that maybe this benefit doesn't exist?

purser @AC

F.Y.I.

Load on an aircraft is distributed in a balanced fashion for safety reasons. The weight distribution includes factors such as the aircraft design, cargo, and passengers. Most aircraft are tail heavy by nature. Some aircraft, such as the the 747, are so tail heavy,that they require something called a "Pogo stick" to prevent the aircraft from falling over on its tail while being loaded.

As a result, on most aircraft, you will find that the last seats assigned are at the rear. This fact prevents the airline from assigning mid cabin seats last. On some AC aircraft,such as the 767, the seat pitch is greater in the small mid cabin. However, due to the above mentionned facts and the location of the baby skycots on the bulkhead wall, I would probably choose a seat at the rear of the aircraft, if I were looking for more space ( on a not fully booked flight).

Ken hAAmer

Blocking an adjacent seat is an explicit benefit in many airlines' programs, and I can't see it costing the airline any money. If the airline fills up, then of course the seat will be occupied. Even if they have to fill the middle section first, then why not offer a seat further back, with a higher likelihood of leaving the seat open? (I've also observed that often the rear of the plane is much less crowded and a lot quieter.)

It seems strange that AC wouldn't offer such a benefit.

Shareholder

Now really, KH. Strange? I would say more typical that AC would not offer such a benefit. While I can accept to a degree Purser's explanation — I don't find them upgrading people to fill a virtually empty J cabin to balance the airplane much these days, and 3 to 5 rows is not a lot of holdback — I still find it odd that airlines like UA and AA can manage this system, but AC can't. Maybe some airline staff, like the woman in the LHR MLL, understand their elite customers better than most. And I do recall that the "empty seat" was a printed benefit for elites in Cdn+. But I guess AC tends to take the cattle car approach to its back cabin, figuring its Elites and SEs when on economy fares will have upgraded into the front cabin, so the back doesn't matter. Perhaps with new and existing competitors, it is time AC takes a look at its cabin service levels back there. Surely this can be done while keeping an eye on costs.

Why bother offering such a Preferred Seating option at all if it is really not practical operationally, or put those rows at the rear of the cabin like First Class used to be in the days of the Viscounts and Vanguards. (Yes I know, it would take forever to get off the aircraft in that case...)

Flyaway

SH: Are you implying that AC keeps profiles on their passengers eg "mother with small child?" I wonder what else it shows????

Shareholder

Such things are noted on a PNR because this generally requires assistance in the cabin. Like you, not sure how she could tell from a seating chart, but she must have pulled up the passenger number and linked it to the file to find out who they'd seated next to an Elite.

InTheAirGuy

"It was clear from the appearance of those occupying most of the seats in the so-called Preferred Seating section, that they were neither elites, nor full fare passengers. "

I find this a most annoying statement. What was their appearance? What did they look like? Did you not like the way they were dressed? Did their dress standard not fit your perception of an SE or E?

I often travel in very informal clothing, and I'm SE. I'm known by my friends for arriving on a plane in a suit and zipping into the washroom, or lounge before boarding, to get casual and/or grungy.
I hate travelling in a suit. I don't give a **** if you don't like what I wear, but I'll wear it, and I spent close to $100k on airfare last year.

Good gosh, you might have SE's around you who have earrings, beards, tattoos, ripped jeans, you name it. The world has changed -- flying is no longer the fashion-club that it was. It's a big bus, and people wear what they wear on buses.

Did you know that there are truckers who are E and SE? They do one-way driving for urgent
deliveries, and their company flys them home in J to get some rest before doing their next load. They're travelling all the time, and they have "status."

Of course, they might annoy you, since they
don't fit your profile.

Most annoying.

StuMcIlwain

Shareholder raises a good point. The so-called preferred seating doesn't really exist. Anyone can request a seat in the preferred section simply by calling AC reservations. That's fine by me if that's what AC wants to do. But they should stop indicating a preferred seating area on the seat maps.

There are some exceptions. As an elite this year, I can now get 10A and 10F on the 737's. AC wouldn't let me book those last year.

After Burner

InTheAirGuy, I think you're reading a bit too much into Shareholder's statement about the "appearance" of the passengers in J. Like you, I dress very casually when I travel. However, there are many other clues that make it really easy to quickly identify a passenger as a non frequent flier. I can certainly spot these passengers and it doesn't have much to do with their attire.

Correction: I just noticed that you're referring to the so-called "premium economy," not J. I'm often aware of the same situation in J; passengers who don't really belong there - ie. tourist class passengers who lucked into an upgrade. They are really easy to identify.

[This message has been edited by After Burner (edited 02-21-2001).]

InTheAirGuy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by After Burner:
[b]InTheAirGuy, I think you're reading a bit too much into Shareholder's statement about the "appearance" of the passengers in J.
----

Probably true. Crummy mood this morning. I'm probably overreacting....

Apologies all round. I'll go get another coffee.

Shareholder

I expected someone to respond as intheairguy has, because of course I am stereotyping, which is a dangerous thing to do. And like him, I know that there is no single profile for an Elite or SE passenger, or the way they should look. But when people stow bags which only have a paper or flimsy plastic ID tag, or the general unfamiliarity of passengers with where their seats are located, and even their demour and dress, age and other circumstances... All of these allow me to draw such "assumptions". Most of the teenage backpackers and elderly travellers occupying this section are not likely to be E or SE. And I am not complaining about "having to sit with such people", but merely questioning the notion that there is indeed a section of the plane, identified as Preferred Seating and advertised as a benefit for elite customers, which AC staff appear not to acknowledge in practice.

And that when empty seats remain, they most often are not next to elite customers in this section of the aircraft.

Either there is a benefit and a policy to support it, or there isn't. It is very simple. I have no qualms about sharing my travel space with anyone, and have been in a variety of conveyances in dozens of countries — third and first world — where I am happy to join everyone else in similar circumstances.

Just come clean, AC and admit there is no such thing as Preferred Seating for elites. Don't take up a half-page in my Elite Guide to convince me that you have a benefit which you really don't offer.



[This message has been edited by Shareholder (edited 02-21-2001).]

Whitey

I always ask at check-in if there is a vacant seat beside me, esp when travelling to LHR. On my last trip, on a A330, i was in 2nd row of Y with someone sitting next to me (a univ student), despite the fact that the plane was only half full. Very iritating. Now I ask at the check-in counter and when I am about to leave the lounge to borad. At that time, 20 min before we depart, they can pretty much get you a seat with a vacant one next to it. In fact, at LHR in the lounge, the agent had to CALL down to ask someone to block the seat next to me. She couldn't do it from there.

Also, this WAS a written rule in the CPGold membership guide - if the flight was not full, they would make every effort to block off the seat next to you. However, a CP agent in HNL in Dec said that they could no longer do this on the new AC computer system!?

Whitey
(pearced tatooed Elite guy with the backpack!)

After Burner

On the few occasions I've flown on websavers without being upgraded, my experience has been that the gate agents bend over backwards in an effort to find me the most comfortable seat. I've also been told that blocking out an adjacent seat is not possible (system limitation). I think it is well known that AC's systems are inferior to its competitors so its agents are not empowered to offer the kind of service that other carriers (AA for instance) can offer.

makin'miles

I find it iteresting that the seat maps on ITN do not block out preferred seating on some CP metal services, namely the B737 as well as B763, while AC metal on the same routes do. I wonder how long it will take for AC to bring this into line?