Heads-up: New SA Immigration rules for kids
May 4, 2015, 7:01 pm
#76
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,667
These regulations aren't doing anything to stop child trafficking. The vast majority of kidnapped children being trafficked will never get on a plane and enter a country via an official immigration channels.
Secondly, how on earth is the average South African immigration official ever going to determine the validity of any of these documents? The permission letter is just a letter, any fool with microsoft word and a printer can whip one up in 5 seconds.
And I don't think any South African immigration official have ever seen a birth certificate issued by they State of Alaska (where my child was born). How on earth is he going to validate that 1. That's a valid, real birth certificate and 2. It really belongs to the child in front of him and the parents listed are actually his real parents and 3. The permission letter was really sign by the other parent listed on the birth certificate.
Secondly, how on earth is the average South African immigration official ever going to determine the validity of any of these documents? The permission letter is just a letter, any fool with microsoft word and a printer can whip one up in 5 seconds.
And I don't think any South African immigration official have ever seen a birth certificate issued by they State of Alaska (where my child was born). How on earth is he going to validate that 1. That's a valid, real birth certificate and 2. It really belongs to the child in front of him and the parents listed are actually his real parents and 3. The permission letter was really sign by the other parent listed on the birth certificate.
Some countries have their own permission form available, which must be recognized/stamped (by presenting local ID documents) by the country's consulate in the traveler's country of residence or by a notary in the home country.
And any local documents to be carried must be translated by an officially recognized translator (if needed) and stamped for validity by the country's consulate in the traveler's country of residence (who are responsible for knowing what a valid document looks like)
Perhaps the process for SA will evolve to be more effective.
May 5, 2015, 6:13 am
#77
In Memoriam
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: L.I., N.Y., UA Gold for Life & Platinum Finnair+
Posts: 818
Unabridged Birth Certs for traveling minors in ZA
Staying at North Lodge Cottages Durban North. I arrived on the 3rd and have a family of parents and 2 minors joining me on 18May. They depart ZA on 01Jun so I asked the staff here to investigate
the issue. They emailed DHA and DHA replied that since my friends arrived prior to 01Jun deadline no need for Birth Cert and that there will be an additional 4 month extension from 01Jun.
the issue. They emailed DHA and DHA replied that since my friends arrived prior to 01Jun deadline no need for Birth Cert and that there will be an additional 4 month extension from 01Jun.
May 5, 2015, 11:50 am
#78
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,731
It's a start. Clearly none of you picking nits here has lost a child taken to a country where the other parent's rights are sovereign and protected.
Some countries have their own permission form available, which must be recognized/stamped (by presenting local ID documents) by the country's consulate in the traveler's country of residence or by a notary in the home country.
And any local documents to be carried must be translated by an officially recognized translator (if needed) and stamped for validity by the country's consulate in the traveler's country of residence (who are responsible for knowing what a valid document looks like)
Perhaps the process for SA will evolve to be more effective.
Some countries have their own permission form available, which must be recognized/stamped (by presenting local ID documents) by the country's consulate in the traveler's country of residence or by a notary in the home country.
And any local documents to be carried must be translated by an officially recognized translator (if needed) and stamped for validity by the country's consulate in the traveler's country of residence (who are responsible for knowing what a valid document looks like)
Perhaps the process for SA will evolve to be more effective.
ETA: South Africa has no such form, their consular services in the US is absolutely laughable, not to mention the special trips parents would have to take to get to a consular office if you live anywhere other than California or the east coast.
Really. Sit back and read again what you wrote. Efficiency and South African Government (the same government that takes 6 months to issue an unabridged birth certificate and even longer for a passport and then you better hope your paper work does not get lost somewhere and the document gets back to you and everything on there is correct. My mom and dad received a marriage certificate with my mom marrying her self, except her middle name was my dad's first name and they got married at my dad's place of birth.) can never be used in the same sentence. Ever.
If I was to traffic kids into South Africa, I wouldn't even have to attempt to do anything remotely legally. Just make sure I have plenty of R100 notes in my pocket and I'll be golden.
Last edited by CBear; May 5, 2015 at 12:01 pm
May 5, 2015, 12:51 pm
#79
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,667
This is the form (checked upon leaving Brazil, when boarding aircraft or buses, and even some domestic buses, applying to kids with Brazilian and foreign passports) and policy used by Brazil, whose burro-cracy rivals that of any country. Their Consulates are also not in every city internationally. There is an option to add a statement to a Brazilian child's passport when it is newly issued or renewed.
http://novayork.itamaraty.gov.br/en-...for_minors.xml
http://novayork.itamaraty.gov.br/en-...d_document.xml
Now if they would add an equal requirement for entry into the country with a child, more incidents might be avoided. (But of course the thinking, on the street and in the courts, is often that any child is better off in Brazil.)
http://novayork.itamaraty.gov.br/en-...for_minors.xml
http://novayork.itamaraty.gov.br/en-...d_document.xml
Now if they would add an equal requirement for entry into the country with a child, more incidents might be avoided. (But of course the thinking, on the street and in the courts, is often that any child is better off in Brazil.)
May 6, 2015, 9:21 am
#81
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,077
SA Travel News Web Site Has a Write Up that Home Affairs Has Put Out a Brochure/Pamphlet/Flier about the new Rules.
http://www.tourismupdate.co.za/Home/...rticleId=49719
What concerns me the most is that enforcement of this is going to be all over the map, literally and figuratively. What if someone's checking in on a single-ticket/PNR itinerary in who knows where connecting to an SA bound flight. You're asking that front-line check in clerk in the origin city to check all this paperwork in order to be sure the person doesn't get rejected at the border by home affairs. Spotty, lax or uneven enforcement will be rampant. Will SA staff check this paperwork at the gate/plane door in order to double check? That'll slow things down.
http://www.tourismupdate.co.za/Home/...rticleId=49719
What concerns me the most is that enforcement of this is going to be all over the map, literally and figuratively. What if someone's checking in on a single-ticket/PNR itinerary in who knows where connecting to an SA bound flight. You're asking that front-line check in clerk in the origin city to check all this paperwork in order to be sure the person doesn't get rejected at the border by home affairs. Spotty, lax or uneven enforcement will be rampant. Will SA staff check this paperwork at the gate/plane door in order to double check? That'll slow things down.
May 6, 2015, 12:43 pm
#82
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,667
So it goes with this.
And no, SA is not Brazil. SA is probably 1000X more efficient. ;-)
May 11, 2015, 2:08 pm
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Confusion reigns over immigration regulations
"With the regards to the requirement for a birth certificate, [CEO SA Tourism] Nzima explains that ... the methodology with which the South African government is approaching the problem is flawed.
Nzima says ... buyers from different countries have all reported how difficult the new regulations will be for them. “Some countries don’t have birth certificates. For others, the translation is extremely costly,” he says.
According to Nzima, there will be confusion at the airports, as airline staff is currently not well trained to understand the new regulations. He fears some airlines may even choose not to accept certain travellers if they are unsure about the documentation. “Travellers will then say: Why bother going to South Africa instead of elsewhere where the process is easier?”"
Source
Johan
Nzima says ... buyers from different countries have all reported how difficult the new regulations will be for them. “Some countries don’t have birth certificates. For others, the translation is extremely costly,” he says.
According to Nzima, there will be confusion at the airports, as airline staff is currently not well trained to understand the new regulations. He fears some airlines may even choose not to accept certain travellers if they are unsure about the documentation. “Travellers will then say: Why bother going to South Africa instead of elsewhere where the process is easier?”"
Source
Johan
May 13, 2015, 2:33 pm
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Home Affairs’ lack of preparation is “gob-smacking”
"It is completely unacceptable that 18 days before its implementation the Department of Home Affairs has still not issued standard operating procedures for its new regulations that become effective on 1 June, according to David Frost, CEO of Satsa. The new regulations will affect an estimated 20% of air passengers who travel as a family.
“We are closing our borders to children,” Frost said in an interview with TV station ANN7. These are draconian measures that Home Affairs has implemented without considering the economic impact on an industry that accounts for over 9% of our GDP and 1.5 million jobs.
In 12 days’ time it will be one year since Home Affairs promulgated the regulations. Airlines, which will have to enforce the rules at hundreds of cities from which passengers start their journeys to SA and neighbouring states using Johannesburg as the hub, are increasingly alarmed by the lack of necessary information."
Source
Johan
“We are closing our borders to children,” Frost said in an interview with TV station ANN7. These are draconian measures that Home Affairs has implemented without considering the economic impact on an industry that accounts for over 9% of our GDP and 1.5 million jobs.
In 12 days’ time it will be one year since Home Affairs promulgated the regulations. Airlines, which will have to enforce the rules at hundreds of cities from which passengers start their journeys to SA and neighbouring states using Johannesburg as the hub, are increasingly alarmed by the lack of necessary information."
Source
Johan
May 14, 2015, 1:35 pm
#85
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,077
May 19, 2015, 1:14 pm
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Operating procedures for travelling minors released
"Industry associations continue to fight against the “national catastrophe”, said SATSA ceo David Frost. “The operating procedures are shockingly complicated. The one concession is that there is no need to translate the unabridged birth certificate. We are fighting to the death to raise the issue as a national catastrophe,” he said."
Source
Full procedures document here.
Johan
Source
Full procedures document here.
Johan
May 19, 2015, 1:44 pm
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
DA reacts to “job-killing” travel requirements
"“The last minute release of the details around the travel requirements for minors travelling internationally by the Department of Home Affairs will spell a disaster for our travel industry in South Africa and the Western Cape,” says the Democratic Alliance.
“The DHA seems to be pursuing a blanket approach to curb child trafficking yet reports indicate that the reality of the situation remains vague,” the statement said. “The 2014 Trafficking in Persons report states that South African citizens and foreign nationals are subjected to human trafficking mainly within the country. South African children are recruited from poor rural areas and brought to urban centres such as Johannesburg, Cape Town and Bloemfontein.
“It appears that the greatest challenge to human trafficking is not a lack of, but rather the enforcement of existing legislation. The DHA should rather follow international best practice or the Western Cape’s coordinated anti-trafficking and victim referral mechanisms.” -"
Source
Johan
“The DHA seems to be pursuing a blanket approach to curb child trafficking yet reports indicate that the reality of the situation remains vague,” the statement said. “The 2014 Trafficking in Persons report states that South African citizens and foreign nationals are subjected to human trafficking mainly within the country. South African children are recruited from poor rural areas and brought to urban centres such as Johannesburg, Cape Town and Bloemfontein.
“It appears that the greatest challenge to human trafficking is not a lack of, but rather the enforcement of existing legislation. The DHA should rather follow international best practice or the Western Cape’s coordinated anti-trafficking and victim referral mechanisms.” -"
Source
Johan
May 19, 2015, 7:31 pm
#88
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Programs: Qantas WP, LTG , Delta, SPG, Priority Club
Posts: 303
Heads-up: New SA Immigration rules for kids
Doesn't look like this is going to be delayed any further. Here's hoping there is some common sense applied once it starts.
May 20, 2015, 10:38 am
#89
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,077
One the more interesting points of the newly produced info is that documents such as a letter from one parent authorizing the other parent to travel to travel with the child must be dated within the last 6 months.
While I see the point, it's a little gotcha that could snag someone. Even though parent 1 and parent 2 are still happily, blissfully together, you can't just write up this letter and be done with it now and forever, you have to redo the letter every six months. Not exactly overly burdensome, but still, another checklist item to do before each SA trip.
While I see the point, it's a little gotcha that could snag someone. Even though parent 1 and parent 2 are still happily, blissfully together, you can't just write up this letter and be done with it now and forever, you have to redo the letter every six months. Not exactly overly burdensome, but still, another checklist item to do before each SA trip.
May 21, 2015, 11:25 pm
#90
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: AY Platinum, UA Premier Platinum, OneWorld Emerald, VA Platinum
Posts: 558