Maelstrom

Hi all,

I've just been looking through my credit card statement for my short travels in China last week, and I noticed that for two of the hotels, I have a single currency (SC) international transcation that have been charged in Australian dollars, rather than in Chinese RMB. When I've been charged in AUD with a SC transaction, the rates are significantly worse compared to when I've paid RMB with a Multi Currency (MC) international transaction. So I'm a little annoyed, though I understand that ultimately I'm at fault for signing the slip of paper without checking to see if it said RMB or AUD on it.

I was never verbally offered the choice of paying in CNY or AUD, though I have just noticed on the bottom of the credit card slip from one hotel in tiny font does it ask me to tick a box selecting payment in CNY or AUD. I didn't tick the box, and they charged me in AUD. The other hotel might have had the same thing, but they did not provide me with a copy of the credit card payment slip to taake home with me (only the room folio).

This practice is quite dodgy. At the end of the day, I'm not out of pocket much money that it is worth investing immense amounts of my time into resolving.

Lesson learned, always check the slip of paper!

lingua101

It is quite common problem in China. Some merchant may argue that how the machine is being configured by the bank.

I normally will use AMEX as much as I can in China to avoid this DCC problem

CanadaDH

How does using Amex avoid DCC? Amex is my main card, and even when using Amex, the merchant terminal generally asks me if I want to pay in my home currency or the local currency. Is DCC not available with Amex in China? I thought it was just a "feature" the merchant enabled on their terminals and it was then offered on all credit card types? But, agreed, that DCC is most definitely a suckers game. The FX rate will almost always be worse than just paying in the local currency.

lingua101

Maelstrom

I believe that AMEX does not offer DCC. Unfortunately, my bank discontinued the companion AMEX card I had late last year, so I'm stuck with my Visa for the moment. I just need to be extra vigilant from now on when signing credit card payment slips. Thanks for the info, guys.

Fyd

AmEx doesn't allow DCC,, so it's a good alternative for China and other countries were this scam is prevalent.
If you have a document showing that you did not choose to be billed in your home currency (like the receipt without the box ticked), you can dispute the charge with your credit card company. The Visa/MC terms explicitly require to be given a choice. If you weren't offered a choice or they ignored the choice you made, your claim should be confirmed.

Maelstrom

Thanks for the help, everyone. I did some maths, and it turns out I'm out of pocket over AUD 50 total, between the two hotel stays. I have contacted each hotel notifying them that I am disputing the charge and giving them an 'opportunity' to refund me the difference. If they don't then I will lodge a dispute with my bank (my bank requires proof I tried to resolve it with the merchant first).

barracuda93

It is not only dodgy, it directly violates Visa / MasterCard regulations and provides a valid reason for chargeback.

Bowgie

It isn't just Accor. In the last year, two Intercontinentals in Beijing and the two in Hong Kong all tried to pull the DCC rip-off on me. One of the Beijing hotels hides the cc charge slip and ask your to sign a long page of small print authorizing DCC. Bottom line, do not trust anything you are told and read EVERY word on any invoice AND demand a copy of the charge receipt. The desk agents are trained to trick you and that is the truth.

Maelstrom

The good news is that each of the hotels have agreed to refund me the "calculated difference" in exchange rates between the DCC exchange rate and true foreign exchange rate on the day. Interestingly, each of them are going about it in a different way. I think I'll likely still lose some money in the end, but at least some action is being taken. And to each hotel's credit, the front office managers have worked with some urgency in resolving my issues.

But you're right, this has been a valuable lesson and I'll be carefully scrutinising all paperwork I sign from now on.

I will also be sending an email to Simon McGrath (COO Asia Pacific) about this, once I have finalised my refunds (received paperwork) from each of the hotels.

NickB

They are not entirely wrong, in that the way the machines are set up in China make DCC the default solution and the manoeuvring to get it to charge in RMB is not always straightforward depending on the equipment. Some merchants or hotel reception staff may well in good faith believe that this is how the bank has set it up even though there is in fact a way to cancel DCC. IIRC, There is detailed discussion of that issue on the China forum and what can be done to avoid it.

lingua101

DCC make the merchant bank (the owner of the machine) earn from that transactions. So they are cunningly doing this.

Maelstrom

Well, I am glad to finally be able to say I can put these particular cases behind me, as my final refund came through yesterday. I initially contacted the three hotels (Grand Mercure Jinan Sunshine, Sofitel Chengdu Taihe and Fairmont Nanjing) about this on 11 October.

The Fairmont Nanjing agreed to refund me the 'calculated difference' in exchange rate between the DCC and non-DCC directly to my WeChat wallet, so this was sorted within 48 hours. The difference between DCC and non-DCC was just over AUD 30 (a 4.23% markup, using exchange rates on XE Currency). I was very satisfied with the fast resolution to this issue.

As I had prepaid for accommodation at the Sofitel Chengdu Taihe, I only charged dining to the room, so the overcharge was RMB 13 (about AUD 2.50). However, it did represent a 4.36% markup over the non-DCC exchange rate, so I reached out to the hotel's management just make them aware. I had no intention of disputing the charge, as I felt that $2.50 was not worth my effort, nor the hotel staff's. But, when I contacted the hotel, the front officer manager insisted to refund me the RMB 13 and offered some additional benefits on my next visit to the hotel, which was unexpected. The refund was processed and received within two weeks. I am impressed with the customer service here and would return to the hotel.

The Grand Mercure Jinan Sunshine was more of a headache. As @lingua101 mentioned above, the hotel stated that the machine is configured in this manner; the hotel or guest has no way to select currency on the machine. The markup here was about 3.97% (just over AUD 20). As I was staying at the same hotel again two weeks later, it was agreed that they would refund the entire first stay's account, and I would settle it again upon returning for my following stay. For whatever reason, the refund could not be processed through the credit card terminals at the hotel and had to be processed through the bank. Though I am satisfied with the manner the front office manager dealt with the issue, the bank (being in China) seemed to be a bureaucratic mess and took a long time. Apparently overseas offices needed to be involved. This took some weeks, and given I had paid for this stay twice, I was a little antsy. The front office manager kept in regular contact with the bank and did the best she could, which I appreciated. At the end of the day, it was the bank that was slow. The general manager was away on holiday when I contacted him, but he took time out of his vacation to reply to me and offered me a complimentary night when I next return, which was appreciated.


Morale of the story - carefully check those credit card payment slips to see if it says DCC on it. I've learned my lesson and am not eager to re-live the same headache again for a while!

est-gratuite

This is a common problem in China and it has to do with the Chinese culture as well.
The computers and/or machines are usually defaulted to charge in "home currency" of the card. I always say I want to pay in CNY before signing anything or pushing any buttons. I check the receipt very carefully each time (sometimes the writing is very small) and ask them to correct it on the spot if it's wrong. But sometimes even this isn't enough because...

1. The hotel staff member does not know how to change the computer and/or machine default setting to charge in CNY
2. The hotel staff member IS PRETENDING not to know how to change the computer and/or machine default setting to charge in CNY
3. It would take longer than a minute to change the default setting on the computer and/or machine, and making you wait makes the hotel staff member "lose face".

Understanding number 3 is really important.
Hotel staff in China (like most workers in China) are trained to work fast and give really fast service, rather than do things a bit slower, but accurately. For them it's much worse to keep the customer waiting. That makes them "lose face" and is embarrassing to them. However, doing something sloppy or incorrect is not that big a deal as long as it was done quickly. Chinese people themselves seem to prefer this type of super fast service, which can be full of mistakes. Local people seem to complain more if they are kept waiting, rather than if things are done incorrectly.

Often this means staff members will do the same (incorrect) thing very fast 3 or more times, until they finally get it right. Be patient, don't get angry or raise your voice...but politely stand your ground until they do it right.

kaizen7

My bank discontinue their Amex companion card as well this November (Commonwealth bank)
And I do have 2 stays scheduled in China ... Will need to be more vigilant when paying the charges.