Originally Posted by wanaflyforless

Many US carriers allow free standby so long as you still want to travel on the same day, whenever a customer desires this to happen. Most US carriers also have a flat tire rule similar to WN, where if you arrive late to the airport within a reasonable amount of time, your ticket is still valid. The biggest difference between WN and most US carriers, IMO, is WN does not allow the customer to opt to standby for free on earlier or later flights, at the customers wish.

As a customer of primarily AA and UA, if I don't know what time I need to go from A to B, I can purchase the cheapest flight of the day then show up when I want to travel and standby for free. As a WN customer I would need to pay the fare difference between what I paid and full fare.

(For those who fly very frequently, a benefit of my UA and AA status is they often will confirm me on my desired flight, when I ask to standby, if they have enough space.)

The flip side of this coin is lack of change fees on WN when you need to change your dates of travel, on WN you only pay the fare difference. If you need time of day flexibility, WN will charge you $ when other airlines are free. If you need date change flexibility, WN will charge you but generally less money than other airlines would.

Originally Posted by wanaflyforless

I question if the average FF understands what they could get with legacy FF miles but cannot get with WN credits. Also, while my knowledge/experience/persistence allows me to always redeem my legacy FF miles for the lowest published level for an expensive ticket, I recognize this is difficult/impossible for many. I also recognize that the person who flies primarily short routes has an equation that favors WN far more than the flyer who generally goes farther.

In conclusion, WN "is generally the best airline for me and many other business flyers" probably is true for you, lougord99, but I doubt the average business traveller on any airline understands the opportunity cost equation well enough to make the decision that is truly optimum for their needs/wants/priorities.

My personal situation is very unique and the equation should be different for everyone, depending what expensive places you want/need to go that FF could replace $$$$ expenditure for. For me, return on investment is a very important part of the equation. The legacy FF programs allow me to get a $2000 free ticket when I spend $2000. WN does not come close.
AA Example:
10 domestic tickets at an average of ~$200 each round trip
7,500 miles earned on average per ticket (~1400 miles flown each way + status and other bonuses)
= 75,000 AA miles earned, $2000 spent
75,000 AA miles = free roundtrip ticket USA-Cameroon = $2000 value (average fare USA to Cameroon)
As I/my family frequently need a ticket to/from Cameroon, I regularly get $2000 value back from AA after having spent $2000 on AA domestically.

Originally Posted by wanaflyforless

For the record: There are large categories of business travellers for whom WN is the best airline choice.

I would also say that the majority of these travellers would receive much more value if WN had a FF program like AA/UA.
WN is right for them even though Rapid Rewards is not the best for them.
(I am a FF program expert; less of an airline expert. Sometimes I allow my focus on the FF programs to cloud my view of the bigger picture.)

Why do I think the average very frequent flyer would receive significantly more from AAdvantage or Mileage Plus over Rapid Rewards:

Lets say our hypothetical very frequent flyer does 50 RTs per year and only flys domestically for work.

With Rapid Rewards, the flyer will earn A list and Companion Pass:
- Priority check-in and security and boarding
- First chance at a good coach seat (board first)
- 6-9 Rapid Rewards RTs (depending on promotions)
- Companion Pass: Can take someone with for a year
- Am I missing anything major? Please let me know!

With AAdvantage, the flyer will earn AA Executive Platinum:
- Priority check-in and security, boarding, standby, and irregular ops accommodation
- First chance at a good coach seat (select seat online when purchasing - best seats only selectable by elites)
- 100,000-400,000 AA miles, depending on length of flights and promos
- Domestic: Pays for economy and is upgraded to F 90% of the time
- Gets 8 SWU (international advance confirmable upgrades)
- AA EXP phone reps: talk to a knowledgeable empowered skilled AA rep 24-7, talk directly to human with no hold time (usually)
- 1/2 price annual lounge membership, improving ability to work before/between flights
- (Oneworld benefits like free lounge access, IF this person decides to do any international)

The below valuations are by necessity subjective. I am trying to be as fair as possible; to get the most applicable answer, each person needs to honestly assign their own personal value to each item.

Value of WN benies:
Priority check-in and security and boarding - $200, or $2 per one-way
First chance at a good coach seat (board first) - $200, or $2 per one-way
8 Rapid Rewards RT free tickets - $2400, or $150 per one-way
Companion Pass - $800
Total: $3,600

Value of AA benies:- Priority check-in and security, boarding, standby, and irregular ops accommodation - $300, or $3 per one-way
- First chance at a good coach seat (select seat online when purchasing - best seats only selectable by elites) - $200, or $2 per one-way
- 200,000 AA miles, depending on length of flights and promos - $3,000
(1.5 cents per AA mile means an AAdvantage date restricted coach ticket to Hawaii is worth $525 to you, and an AAdvantage issued Cathay Pacific date restricted business class ticket to Asia is worth $1,650 to you; I personally get more than that from my miles)
- Domestic: Pays for economy and is upgraded to F 90% of the time - $2,250, or $25 per one-way - certainly highly subjective but most everyone values an upgrade more than $.01 so what is it for you?
- Gets 8 SWU (international advance confirmable upgrades) - $2,400
8 x $300, value based on what I see them trade for on CC on average
- AA EXP phone reps: talk to a knowledgeable empowered skilled AA rep 24-7, talk directly to human with no hold time (usually) - I will assume I missed something of similar value from Rapid Rewards
- 1/2 price annual lounge membership, improving ability to work before/between flights - I will assume I missed something of similar value from Rapid Rewards
Total: $8,150

Based on the above math, the same flyer either gets $8,150 from AAdvantage or $3600 from Rapid Rewards.

Originally Posted by toomanybooks

For the VERY VERY frequent flyer, maybe 2-5% of the world, your analysis may make sense. 50 RTs a year? How many people do that? Yeah, I know there are some, but really. We WN fliers are not nuts, I assure you. Here are some considerations: 1. WN has nicer employees; very few "dragon FAs." 2. WN is less likely to "go mechanical" on you at the drop of a hat (UA out of Washington, DC, I'm looking at you). 3. WN is less likely to lie blatantly to your face (UA out of Washington, DC, ditto). 4. WN doesn't screw you out of your fare when you make a change. 5. WN often has more RR awards available for your planned trip. 6. WN doesn't have computers that blow up on holiday weekends, screwing thousands of people. 7. WN planes are cleaner, from what I see. 8. If a fare drops, you can pocket the difference as a voucher good for a year (alone potentially worth thousands of dollars to someone who flies 1 RT per week). I'd play that one like a fiddle. 9. WN doesn't change its schedule ALL THE TIME and sometimes fail to get the word out. Read some of the threads running now about LH award segments getting changed and hosing people's plans. I could do this all day. For the person with less than enough travel to attain highest status on a legacy: 10. WN doesn't charge outlandish fees for luggage. 11. WN doesn't charge for last-minute RR redemptions (and some actually exist). 12. WN's Visa card is MUCH MUCH more generous than AA's Mastercard (not many people fly 50 RTs a year, so they have to get their credits elsewhere). $9600 spent on WN tickets or with partners gets a RT and 1/6 of the way to a Companion Pass; how much spending is needed on your AA Mastercard? A rental car can get you 2 WN RR credits. What do you get with AA, 100 lousy miles? 13. Double bonus credits (for example, to PHL and DEN at the moment). If you are lucky enough to live/travel there, it could be extremely lucrative. A Companion Pass is worth a lot more than $800. Someone posted how he got $4500 worth of trips (for his wife, I think) out of it. I value it at $2000-$2500, maybe more, as I take my son somewhere about once a month. Some of us don't fly Business Class to Hawaii and Cameroon and SIN all the time. We are pretty much restricted to the US for business and family reasons. And what's wrong with flying both WN and AA, taking advantage of the benefits of each, as the case may be? Why does it have to be all or nothing? For example, I can see where it might make sense to use WN until you get 100 credits, then switch, especially when using the WN Visa and renting cars. Then you'd have top status in 2 programs.

Originally Posted by wanaflyforless

For anyone with significant CC spend, I would recommend the following CC combination:
1) Citibank Platinum Amex
- Earn 3 TYP per $ on everything, 5 on certain categories
- Redeem thankyou points at 1 cent each for ANY ticket anytime anywhere that Expedia.com can book (I wish WN would play ball!)
(So $8,000 spent on any category earns you $240 towards your next ticket; $5,000 spent on certain categories earns you $300 towards your next ticket, etc)
2) Asiana American Express Card from Bank of America - Earn 2 Asiana FF miles per $ spent on Everything
(So $45K spent = business class Star alliance redemption to Europe
Or, if you prefer, $8K-$15K spent for a free star alliance domestic ticket, number of miles required is distance based with Asiana)
3) Carry a Merrill+ Visa Rewards - no annual fee back up card for when you need a Visa - transfer these points 1:1 to British Airways or redeem them at 1 cent each directly for plane tickets or gift cards
4) Carry an Amtrak Guest Rewards MasterCard - no annual fee back up card for when you need a Mastercard - transfer these points 1:1 to Continental or redeem them on Amtrak or for merchandise/gift cards

Originally Posted by gregorygrady

It is fairly well known and agreed upon in this forum that the perks for TOP-tier status on legacies (ie, UAL 1K) is better than top-tier on Southwest. Possibly the same for mid-tier (UAL 1P), or closer to a wash. Low tier (UAL 2P) I'd say is a wash or SWA possibly has the advantage. No-tier fliers (UAL base members) are MUCH better off on SWA. I think that is the general consensus on this forum after reading it for several years.

However I also think the F upgrades on legacies are highly overrated. Back when I was a PremEx on UAL, I bought a soon-to-expire SWU on eBay for $67. I really debated whether or not it was worth the $67 since I already got lounge access on my Int'l flight. When I became 1K with UAL, I traded all my SWU's away for around $500 value each. So somebody obviously values F upgrades highly, but it isn't me, that's for sure. I'm quite happy in my Exit Row seat with tons of legroom.

So basically, it completely depends on the individual flier and his/her unique circumstances as to what the value of the different statuses are for each airline. But the general consensus is that if you fly enough to earn top tier status on a legacy (especially if any of that flying is Int'l), then you're better off with the legacies. Otherwise, you're generally better off with SWA.

Originally Posted by nsx

generally legacy programs win big if you can reach their top elite levels. Exception: short-haul flyers like me do better with Rapid Rewards. RR 2.0 will soon kill that advantage. Then I'll have to be content with on-time flights and no change fees.