Maxi dress through security
Aug 20, 2012, 6:01 pm
#31
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 12 stops from ORD
Programs: UA, AA, DL
Posts: 992
TSOs who post here have said that it is policy to check everyone wearing skirts, or bulky clothing. Other posters have reported that they no longer wear skirts due to the high rate of being checked. Those of us who do wear skirts on every single flight may have a higher rate of being checked due to the airports we use.
As with anything related to TSA, it all depends on the airport, the checkpoint, and the agent.
Frankly, I find it disheartening how many American women don't seem to care, or seem to think that we must be behaving in a certain fashion or doing something to deserve this type of treatment.
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As with anything related to TSA, it all depends on the airport, the checkpoint, and the agent.
Frankly, I find it disheartening how many American women don't seem to care, or seem to think that we must be behaving in a certain fashion or doing something to deserve this type of treatment.
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Like I said, I'd rather see the actual policy than anonymous hearsay reports.
Further, even if it is policy "to check everyone wearing skirts....", that purported policy certainly isn't being followed with any consistency. If it was, then TSA lines would grind to a halt. And you'd probably see stories on the news too. Yes, I know it feels like the lines already don't move but I think it'd be 100x worse.
I also think you overreach when you say that "American women don't seem to care". First, I'm not sure why you reference only American women. Second, IMO, a more plausible explanation for American women supposedly not caring is that your typical dress-wearing, female flyer simply doesn't get a second search at anything remotely approaching the ratio that you do. Hence, they have little if any reason to be upset.
Aug 20, 2012, 6:37 pm
#32
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
Like I said, I'd rather see the actual policy than anonymous hearsay reports.
Further, even if it is policy "to check everyone wearing skirts....", that purported policy certainly isn't being followed with any consistency. If it was, then TSA lines would grind to a halt. And you'd probably see stories on the news too. Yes, I know it feels like the lines already don't move but I think it'd be 100x worse.
I also think you overreach when you say that "American women don't seem to care". First, I'm not sure why you reference only American women. Second, IMO, a more plausible explanation for American women supposedly not caring is that your typical dress-wearing, female flyer simply doesn't get a second search at anything remotely approaching the ratio that you do. Hence, they have little if any reason to be upset.
Further, even if it is policy "to check everyone wearing skirts....", that purported policy certainly isn't being followed with any consistency. If it was, then TSA lines would grind to a halt. And you'd probably see stories on the news too. Yes, I know it feels like the lines already don't move but I think it'd be 100x worse.
I also think you overreach when you say that "American women don't seem to care". First, I'm not sure why you reference only American women. Second, IMO, a more plausible explanation for American women supposedly not caring is that your typical dress-wearing, female flyer simply doesn't get a second search at anything remotely approaching the ratio that you do. Hence, they have little if any reason to be upset.
Many women have caved in and don't wear skirts anymore. Many of us have been told that our experiences simply are not true, or are not valid. The reality is that many of the female FTers tell us to suck it up, change our preferred style of dress, or tell us that our accounts are wrong. I see far more male FTers upset about the subject, and supporting us, than female FTers. Just look at this thread for one more example of how women here are often very unpleasant to each other. I may not agree with all the fashion choices people list here, but I won't openly mock them for their choice.
Edited to add: it may also depend how one chooses to pass through the checkpoint. Those using the scanner may still be pulled for a check due to false alarms for pleats, and folds of clothing. Since the scanners are now primary at so many US checkpoints, unless one is unable to use the scanner, or opts out, one may not be going through the WTMD.
Last edited by exbayern; Aug 20, 2012 at 7:36 pm
Aug 20, 2012, 9:16 pm
#33
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 12 stops from ORD
Programs: UA, AA, DL
Posts: 992
Why should we have to forego comfort and style and change our preferred attire because of the absurd security practices at US airports?
There are many female FTers (including ones who posted on this thread, and on the ones I have linked) who have reported similar experiences. There are posts on various websites which reports similar experiences. TSOs have stated the policy regarding skirts here on FT. TSA management has stated the same at various airports in the US.
Many women have caved in and don't wear skirts anymore. Many of us have been told that our experiences simply are not true, or are not valid. The reality is that many of the female FTers tell us to suck it up, change our preferred style of dress, or tell us that our accounts are wrong. I see far more male FTers upset about the subject, and supporting us, than female FTers. Just look at this thread for one more example of how women here are often very unpleasant to each other. I may not agree with all the fashion choices people list here, but I won't openly mock them for their choice.
Edited to add: it may also depend how one chooses to pass through the checkpoint. Those using the scanner may still be pulled for a check due to false alarms for pleats, and folds of clothing. Since the scanners are now primary at so many US checkpoints, unless one is unable to use the scanner, or opts out, one may not be going through the WTMD.
There are many female FTers (including ones who posted on this thread, and on the ones I have linked) who have reported similar experiences. There are posts on various websites which reports similar experiences. TSOs have stated the policy regarding skirts here on FT. TSA management has stated the same at various airports in the US.
Many women have caved in and don't wear skirts anymore. Many of us have been told that our experiences simply are not true, or are not valid. The reality is that many of the female FTers tell us to suck it up, change our preferred style of dress, or tell us that our accounts are wrong. I see far more male FTers upset about the subject, and supporting us, than female FTers. Just look at this thread for one more example of how women here are often very unpleasant to each other. I may not agree with all the fashion choices people list here, but I won't openly mock them for their choice.
Edited to add: it may also depend how one chooses to pass through the checkpoint. Those using the scanner may still be pulled for a check due to false alarms for pleats, and folds of clothing. Since the scanners are now primary at so many US checkpoints, unless one is unable to use the scanner, or opts out, one may not be going through the WTMD.
And for many, many, many, many, more women, secondary searches are a non-issue.
Anyways, carry on. Hopefully you won't be as unlucky in your future travels. ^
Aug 23, 2012, 8:57 am
#34
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
Are you female? Have you personally been forced to submit to a stranger's hands inside your clothing? If not, perhaps you lack the perspective to understand the feeling of being violated that such a search generates.
As for the silly "many, many, many, many, more" number you cite, can you offer a single source to support that? Like "Poll X, taken by the ABC Organization, questioned 10,000 women who had experienced secondary searches and they all said the searches were just fine" - can you back up your opinion in any reasonable way?
Oh, and silence on the subject can not be taken as consent. The failure of women to speak out against the searches could just as easily be motivated by fear as by approval.
Aug 23, 2012, 10:15 am
#35
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
Numbers also play a role. Someone who flies rarely ie once a year or so may not have the same experience, and as I said upthread, it often depends on the airport, the checkpoint, the screener, and other unknown factors as to whether one is given a secondary. Contrast that with someone who flies several times a week wearing an A line skirt, from certain airports, and the results in terms of actual experiences will most likely be very different.
Hopefully OP's return trip will also be uneventful, but if it is, I also hope that she won't join the chorus of 'if it didn't happen to me, it didn't happen'. I used to think that TSA 'wasn't that bad' but after several flights a week for an extended period in the US I realised that I was in the wrong, and publically apologised for that.
The experiences I have had to date haven't traumatised me but I can certainly understand how it may impact some people to have a stranger put their dirty blue-gloved hands up between their bare legs. I have even had my underwear pulled down (although to give the non-TSA manager credit, he was horrified when he was called to the checkpoint, and escorted me to the lav and bought me a drink whilst I was rearranging my clothing)
I stated 'American women' because American women (and men) are the ones who can drive change. As an outsider, I cannot contact my congressperson, I cannot write my senator, and I cannot cast my vote a certain way. What I can do is choose not to travel to the US and I have done so, moving all my holiday travel to other parts of the world, and changing my employment role so that my travel is now primarily outside the US. I can also continue to alert people of the strong possibility of this happening to them, based on my many experiences as well as the experiences of those people who did report them here and elsewhere.
My posts on the subject of TSA I believe are generally measured, and I give credit where credit is due, reporting on the neutral or 'good' experiences with TSA as well as the bad. I also think that there are at least one or two female FT'ers who actually do more harm than good in this argument, even though they are against the way TSA treats some women, and I have stated so.
The reality is that some women will never have a secondary check whilst flying in a skirt in the US, others will have a few, and still others will have many. It has nothing to do with how they behave, and it doesn't mean that they must have been 'bad' to prompt the search. You won't find a public document (unless TSA goofs again) stating that all skirts require a check, as that is SSI
but certainly there are enough people who will indicate that this is the case (both TSA and contract security companies) here on FT as well as in real life.
Aug 23, 2012, 5:05 pm
#36
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 55,189
Many women have caved in and don't wear skirts anymore.
Originally Posted by exbayern
The experiences I have had to date haven't traumatised me but I can certainly understand how it may impact some people to have a stranger put their dirty blue-gloved hands up between their bare legs. I have even had my underwear pulled down
Aug 23, 2012, 5:45 pm
#37
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
Forego comfort and style? Pants are the most comfortable. They give your legs the comfort and freedom a dress and skirt cannot. As for style, one can easily wear drab-looking skirts as one can wear stylish pants. One doesn't preclude the other.
Many of us like the comfort of slacks whether in a suit or in a casual pair of pants.
Many of us like the comfort of slacks whether in a suit or in a casual pair of pants.
You are correct that either one can be "drab" but again, that's in the eye of the beholder. I personally think women whose wardrobe is dominated by black - "because it goes with everything" - really ought to look in the mirror more often and many of them might realize that what it doesn't go with is their skin tone and hair, but I'm not going to try to dictate a change in their wardrobe. Neither should you tell anyone that pants should be worn for travel just because you like them better.
Why not support evidence based searches by the TSA instead of attacking someone else's preference in clothing?
Aug 23, 2012, 9:01 pm
#38
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 55,189
I personally think women whose wardrobe is dominated by black - "because it goes with everything" - really ought to look in the mirror more often and many of them might realize that what it doesn't go with is their skin tone and hair, but I'm not going to try to dictate a change in their wardrobe.
Aug 25, 2012, 4:55 pm
#40
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
I don't choose to have children, but I staunchly support women who choose to have children and insist that they should not be discriminated against in the workplace because of their choices. Similarly, I rarely wear skirts, but I will defend any woman's right to wear traditional women's clothing without risk of molestation from government agents.
Mobilizing other women, and letting them know that they are not alone, that there are others willing to fight the battle with you, is the first step in effecting change.
Last edited by janetdoe; Aug 25, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Aug 25, 2012, 5:29 pm
#41
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 55,189
Next, if you want to avoid the risk of having someone feel you up your panties, wear slacks. Not rocket science to anyone except those who want to whine about taking care of yourself. No where am I saying that anyone deserves to be groped if you wear dresses/skirts.
Again, reread where I said how horrified I feel that anyone would be touched like that.
Just because you feel smart, professional, and attractive when you wear pants does not mean that every woman is the same.
Further, there are multiple religions, as well as personal standards of modesty and comfort, which necessitate or require dresses / skirts for some women.
I don't choose to have children, but I staunchly support women who choose to have children and insist that they should not be discriminated against in the workplace because of their choices. Similarly, I rarely wear skirts, but I will defend any woman's right to wear traditional women's clothing without risk of molestation from government agents.
The only reason you have the choice to wear pants at work is that women before you fought battles exactly like exbayern is fighting. From my conversations with older, professional women, I know that as recently as the 1990's, large corporations often had dress codes that forbade women from wearing pants. See, for example, http://articles.latimes.com/1994-08-...9_1_wear-pants.
Mobilizing other women, and letting them know that they are not alone, that there are others willing to fight the battle with you, is the first step in effecting change.
Last edited by Analise; Aug 25, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Aug 26, 2012, 1:57 pm
#42
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not in DFW
Posts: 2,007
Forego comfort and style? Pants are the most comfortable. They give your legs the comfort and freedom a dress and skirt cannot. As for style, one can easily wear drab-looking skirts as one can wear stylish pants. One doesn't preclude the other.
Many of us like the comfort of slacks whether in a suit or in a casual pair of pants. Deep pockets....so rare in a skirt and almost non-existent in dresses. When I travel, I love pockets. Makes my purse that much lighter. ^
Oh my God. That right there is horrifying and a reason NEVER to wear dresses and skirts which expose your panties to prying hands at the airport. Wear pants and never be groped like that. It isn't like pants are banned on flights.
Many of us like the comfort of slacks whether in a suit or in a casual pair of pants. Deep pockets....so rare in a skirt and almost non-existent in dresses. When I travel, I love pockets. Makes my purse that much lighter. ^
Oh my God. That right there is horrifying and a reason NEVER to wear dresses and skirts which expose your panties to prying hands at the airport. Wear pants and never be groped like that. It isn't like pants are banned on flights.
What are you babbling about? I recommend wearing pants to avoid anyone reaching up your skirt to violate you. Why play the victim? You can dress professionally, smartly, and attractively in pants when you travel. Why purposely put yourself in a position to be violated? Is it better to whine about it in an onine bulletin board because, if so, you're effecting change? Dream on. Or, you can be travel-smart and take care of yourself because if you don't, no one else will. Facts are facts.
That you have some issue with black clothes has nothing to do with travel security. Really.
That you have some issue with black clothes has nothing to do with travel security. Really.
If that's your understanding, I suggest you reread and show me that. Seriously. Waiting. One step away from being raped? Show me where I say a woman deserves to be attacked. Waiting. Show me. Do it. Talk about dishonest. That you feel threatened by my advice to protect yourself is bizarre.
Next, if you want to avoid the risk of having someone feel you up your panties, wear slacks. Not rocket science to anyone except those who want to whine about taking care of yourself. No where am I saying that anyone deserves to be groped if you wear dresses/skirts. Again, reread where I said how horrified I feel that anyone would be touched like that.
Are you kidding? That's like saying that even though it's cold outside, I won't wear a warm coat because it doesn't look good. Protect yourself from the cold; protect yourself from prodding fingers.
Most passengers, especially business travelers, are not restricted by strict religious dress. I'm speaking about the majority of travelers. I have no idea what such a religiously restricted woman will do on a flight on Monday.
Legal rights? I'm not talking about any legalities. I'm talking about looking out for yourself because so often, the law won't protect you. Only you can. After the fact is too late as far as I am concerned. As for me personally, I am not a fan of pants suits. I prefer to wear pencil skirts but I won't when I fly.
This is 2012; it's not 18 years ago. Women can wear business suits with pants; the Secretary of State is the poster child for that.
...and what will that do on your flight Monday morning? You can plan for the future; I deal in right now.
Next, if you want to avoid the risk of having someone feel you up your panties, wear slacks. Not rocket science to anyone except those who want to whine about taking care of yourself. No where am I saying that anyone deserves to be groped if you wear dresses/skirts.
Again, reread where I said how horrified I feel that anyone would be touched like that. Are you kidding? That's like saying that even though it's cold outside, I won't wear a warm coat because it doesn't look good. Protect yourself from the cold; protect yourself from prodding fingers.
Most passengers, especially business travelers, are not restricted by strict religious dress. I'm speaking about the majority of travelers. I have no idea what such a religiously restricted woman will do on a flight on Monday.
Legal rights? I'm not talking about any legalities. I'm talking about looking out for yourself because so often, the law won't protect you. Only you can. After the fact is too late as far as I am concerned. As for me personally, I am not a fan of pants suits. I prefer to wear pencil skirts but I won't when I fly.
This is 2012; it's not 18 years ago. Women can wear business suits with pants; the Secretary of State is the poster child for that.
...and what will that do on your flight Monday morning? You can plan for the future; I deal in right now.
I am not going to go point for point with you in this Maxi Dress posting thread.
Instead I am going to simply state the following.
1. I find dresses and skirts more comfortable and professional for me.
2. Because I chose to wear dresses and skirts through security does not mean I am playing the victim or inviting trouble, my belief.
3. What works for you isn't a one size fits all, I don't have to all follow the guidelines that you follow. It's my choice.
4. I travel smart, I travel nearly every week. I deal with each situation as it arises; if I want to whine about it on a posting, I will.
Aug 26, 2012, 9:00 pm
#43
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 971
"Pants are the most comfortable."
I personally find pants torturous to wear on a plane. Seams at the crotch, seams up and down the inside and the outside of the leg, waist band issues, tuck or untuck, tedious in the bathroom.
A long loose flowing skirt lets me bring my legs up should there be an empty seat next to me. Easier to use the bathroom. No tight seams or wrinkles to deal with.
So, I roll up my long skirt, put it in my carryon, and change into it as soon as I'm through the disgusting intrusion that is TSA security. The rolled pants stay unwrinkled until I want to put them on, if I do.
I personally find pants torturous to wear on a plane. Seams at the crotch, seams up and down the inside and the outside of the leg, waist band issues, tuck or untuck, tedious in the bathroom.
A long loose flowing skirt lets me bring my legs up should there be an empty seat next to me. Easier to use the bathroom. No tight seams or wrinkles to deal with.
So, I roll up my long skirt, put it in my carryon, and change into it as soon as I'm through the disgusting intrusion that is TSA security. The rolled pants stay unwrinkled until I want to put them on, if I do.
Sep 10, 2012, 6:56 am
#45
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not in DFW
Posts: 2,007
I don't get cold much. Also I rarely wear maxi dresses on a plane, that's a Texas summer thing at home. I do wear dresses and skirts on planes a lot. I use any temperature under 68 degrees as an excuse to wear black tights, boots and a scarf with whatever outfit I am wearing.