How are A330 UC downgrades prioritized?
Jun 25, 2017, 3:47 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,558
How are A330 UC downgrades prioritized?
All - flying JFKLHR VS138 before long, and have been tracking tails by day.
Flight is scheduled (and presumably sold) to 33 seats.
However, in a fair number of observations, A333s with the new UC @ 31 seats have been operating.
Given the uncertainty over configuration, one would hope VS is only authorizing this flight to sell 31. But I fear that isn't the case.
Does anybody have the downgrade prioritization that will be used to potentially boot 2 unlucky UC passengers?
Cause for my concern is I'm Delta DM w/companion on very high revenue coach (maybe B fare?) with certs applied for UC, and my kids are ticketed separately in UC, no status, on mileage awards.
If this were strictly DL I wouldn't worry, as I understand their downgrade system and can assure a DM can't be downgraded nor can kids that are cross-referenced to DM PNR (furthermore, it would technically FORCE an unaccompanied minor situation, which I don't believe airlines have the right to do).
Thanks in advance, probably don't have anything to worry about, but I'd prefer to go into battle armed with ammunition.
Jamie
Flight is scheduled (and presumably sold) to 33 seats.
However, in a fair number of observations, A333s with the new UC @ 31 seats have been operating.
Given the uncertainty over configuration, one would hope VS is only authorizing this flight to sell 31. But I fear that isn't the case.
Does anybody have the downgrade prioritization that will be used to potentially boot 2 unlucky UC passengers?
Cause for my concern is I'm Delta DM w/companion on very high revenue coach (maybe B fare?) with certs applied for UC, and my kids are ticketed separately in UC, no status, on mileage awards.
If this were strictly DL I wouldn't worry, as I understand their downgrade system and can assure a DM can't be downgraded nor can kids that are cross-referenced to DM PNR (furthermore, it would technically FORCE an unaccompanied minor situation, which I don't believe airlines have the right to do).
Thanks in advance, probably don't have anything to worry about, but I'd prefer to go into battle armed with ammunition.
Jamie
Jun 25, 2017, 5:46 pm
#2
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Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,216
I've not seen any reports of anyone been downgraded due to this.
It does look as though VS have only been selling 31 seats until it knows which version it will actually be flying on a particular flight in which case there could be opportunities for a couple of last minute miles / cash upgrades.
And unless you are flying on a particularly busy day it is unlikely that the cabin would be full anyway.
But what VS do is ask for volunteers in advance - I've seen reports of people being phoned up in advance asking if they would like to change to a different flight for example in return for some miles and cash.
It does look as though VS have only been selling 31 seats until it knows which version it will actually be flying on a particular flight in which case there could be opportunities for a couple of last minute miles / cash upgrades.
And unless you are flying on a particularly busy day it is unlikely that the cabin would be full anyway.
But what VS do is ask for volunteers in advance - I've seen reports of people being phoned up in advance asking if they would like to change to a different flight for example in return for some miles and cash.
Jun 25, 2017, 6:36 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,558
I've not seen any reports of anyone been downgraded due to this.
It does look as though VS have only been selling 31 seats until it knows which version it will actually be flying on a particular flight in which case there could be opportunities for a couple of last minute miles / cash upgrades.
And unless you are flying on a particularly busy day it is unlikely that the cabin would be full anyway.
But what VS do is ask for volunteers in advance - I've seen reports of people being phoned up in advance asking if they would like to change to a different flight for example in return for some miles and cash.
It does look as though VS have only been selling 31 seats until it knows which version it will actually be flying on a particular flight in which case there could be opportunities for a couple of last minute miles / cash upgrades.
And unless you are flying on a particularly busy day it is unlikely that the cabin would be full anyway.
But what VS do is ask for volunteers in advance - I've seen reports of people being phoned up in advance asking if they would like to change to a different flight for example in return for some miles and cash.
Best, Jamie
Jun 26, 2017, 2:31 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: HH Diamond, VS Au, BA Mauve
Posts: 111
I've not seen any reports of anyone been downgraded due to this.
It does look as though VS have only been selling 31 seats until it knows which version it will actually be flying on a particular flight in which case there could be opportunities for a couple of last minute miles / cash upgrades.
And unless you are flying on a particularly busy day it is unlikely that the cabin would be full anyway.
But what VS do is ask for volunteers in advance - I've seen reports of people being phoned up in advance asking if they would like to change to a different flight for example in return for some miles and cash.
It does look as though VS have only been selling 31 seats until it knows which version it will actually be flying on a particular flight in which case there could be opportunities for a couple of last minute miles / cash upgrades.
And unless you are flying on a particularly busy day it is unlikely that the cabin would be full anyway.
But what VS do is ask for volunteers in advance - I've seen reports of people being phoned up in advance asking if they would like to change to a different flight for example in return for some miles and cash.
Virgin's offer? 100,000 miles comp! For a flight that left 30 mins later, but with a downgrade
Jun 26, 2017, 2:48 am
#5
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Huge win for VS if people accept miles instead of what they are entitled to. Spending miles simply involves paying VS another big amount in surcharges to use them...
Jun 27, 2017, 7:47 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,558
Not sure you'd find too many takers, unless you are adding the appropriate EU cash compensation (for the downgrade) on top.
Huge win for VS if people accept miles instead of what they are entitled to. Spending miles simply involves paying VS another big amount in surcharges to use them...
Huge win for VS if people accept miles instead of what they are entitled to. Spending miles simply involves paying VS another big amount in surcharges to use them...
Jamie
Jun 28, 2017, 3:24 am
#7
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If you paid with miles, you generally are only entitled to 75% of the miles spent (and theoretically the same 75% of taxes/surcharges), although I've seen far more examples of this happening with Avios than with VS - there are some arguments that you should receive the 75% of the cash price, even though you paid with miles. In practice you might want to grab the 100K miles on offer rather than risk losing an EU261 fight.
Although the customer might like 100K miles, VS are actually the big winners, since in the future you will likely be paying them more surcharges for the reward flight, whereas a downgrade should involve a cash refund today...
On another thread a free return flight anywhere in UC was also offered. That may be an interesting option to ask for, especially if you really just want to be on the flight you booked.
That said, I'm not an expert on EU261 regulations. But aiming for cash instead of jumping on an offer of miles is:
1. likely to result in an improved offer
2. incentivise VS to find somebody else to downgrade
Jun 28, 2017, 6:15 am
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,558
If you paid cash, you are entitled to 75% of the cash fare as a refund. I believe you can also insist on flying the next available UC, and receive EU261 compensation for the delay. If this involves off-loading and delaying a family, the airline will probably find somebody else to downgrade...
If you paid with miles, you generally are only entitled to 75% of the miles spent (and theoretically the same 75% of taxes/surcharges), although I've seen far more examples of this happening with Avios than with VS - there are some arguments that you should receive the 75% of the cash price, even though you paid with miles. In practice you might want to grab the 100K miles on offer rather than risk losing an EU261 fight.
Although the customer might like 100K miles, VS are actually the big winners, since in the future you will likely be paying them more surcharges for the reward flight, whereas a downgrade should involve a cash refund today...
On another thread a free return flight anywhere in UC was also offered. That may be an interesting option to ask for, especially if you really just want to be on the flight you booked.
That said, I'm not an expert on EU261 regulations. But aiming for cash instead of jumping on an offer of miles is:
1. likely to result in an improved offer
2. incentivise VS to find somebody else to downgrade
If you paid with miles, you generally are only entitled to 75% of the miles spent (and theoretically the same 75% of taxes/surcharges), although I've seen far more examples of this happening with Avios than with VS - there are some arguments that you should receive the 75% of the cash price, even though you paid with miles. In practice you might want to grab the 100K miles on offer rather than risk losing an EU261 fight.
Although the customer might like 100K miles, VS are actually the big winners, since in the future you will likely be paying them more surcharges for the reward flight, whereas a downgrade should involve a cash refund today...
On another thread a free return flight anywhere in UC was also offered. That may be an interesting option to ask for, especially if you really just want to be on the flight you booked.
That said, I'm not an expert on EU261 regulations. But aiming for cash instead of jumping on an offer of miles is:
1. likely to result in an improved offer
2. incentivise VS to find somebody else to downgrade
Jun 28, 2017, 6:38 am
#9
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For a downgrade the [U]reimbursement[U] (EU261 is specific in its language for a downgrade there is reimbursement not compensation) is a % of the cost of the sector downgraded and not the entire ticket excluding the government taxes and airport fees. There was a court ruling last year that clarified this point.
If you paid in miles then the reimbursement will be in miles. The airline has no obligation to offer you the cash equivalent of the cost of buying those miles for example. It might not be as much as you think it is!
If you paid in miles then the reimbursement will be in miles. The airline has no obligation to offer you the cash equivalent of the cost of buying those miles for example. It might not be as much as you think it is!
Jun 28, 2017, 10:08 am
#10
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Quite right. I wasn't quite clear enough.
As for miles, if you book a VS flight using DL (or some other kind of partner) miles, I don't believe that VS are able to "refund" a partner airline's mileage currency. In that case, if you reject receiving VS miles (a simple "I don't collect those" should suffice), then you can put it back on the airline to come up with another option.
In general, EU rules make it cheapest for the airline to downgrade passengers travelling on miles, so one needs to be aware of that before pushing back too hard. But IMO I would only volunteer if I was getting something more tangible than 100K VS miles...
As for miles, if you book a VS flight using DL (or some other kind of partner) miles, I don't believe that VS are able to "refund" a partner airline's mileage currency. In that case, if you reject receiving VS miles (a simple "I don't collect those" should suffice), then you can put it back on the airline to come up with another option.
In general, EU rules make it cheapest for the airline to downgrade passengers travelling on miles, so one needs to be aware of that before pushing back too hard. But IMO I would only volunteer if I was getting something more tangible than 100K VS miles...