View Poll Results: Is an American Airlines/US Airways merger good for the traveling public?
Yes
84
28.19%
No
214
71.81%
Voters: 298. You may not vote on this poll
Last edit by: aztimm
Note:
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'
#211
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
The flight to TLV will continue. AA could have flown to Israel but chose not to.
#212
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Programs: AA EP, OZ Diamond, WS Plat, Avis CHM, Hertz PC, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 910
Wow, just ran across this stat in a Reuters article:
"Oneworld comprises 13 carriers serving 160 countries with 9,500 departures daily. SkyTeam's 19 airlines fly to 187 countries some 15,000 times a day, while Star is formed of 27 airlines serving 194 countries with 22,000 daily departures.
Oneworld's share of global capacity stands at 11.6 percent, compared to SkyTeam's 18.3 percent and Star's 24.8 percent, according to CAPA data."
"Oneworld comprises 13 carriers serving 160 countries with 9,500 departures daily. SkyTeam's 19 airlines fly to 187 countries some 15,000 times a day, while Star is formed of 27 airlines serving 194 countries with 22,000 daily departures.
Oneworld's share of global capacity stands at 11.6 percent, compared to SkyTeam's 18.3 percent and Star's 24.8 percent, according to CAPA data."
#213
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: PHL
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AA Gold, FB Gold, ITA Volare Executive
Posts: 3,294
Jeff should tell Tom and Doug what will happen when you piss off your elites and you have an arrogant "XX knows best" attitude. AA took advantage of a lot of disgruntled MP FFs and is trying to poach from DL too. It would be a shame if all that was wasted on gutting Advantage and pissing off their elites.
UA's been struggling hard on its financials when everyone else was posting a profit. You can only blame "integration" issues so long, and the 787 and network aren't the reasons to overlook UA's issues.
UA's been struggling hard on its financials when everyone else was posting a profit. You can only blame "integration" issues so long, and the 787 and network aren't the reasons to overlook UA's issues.
#214
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,406
Wow, just ran across this stat in a Reuters article:
"Oneworld comprises 13 carriers serving 160 countries with 9,500 departures daily. SkyTeam's 19 airlines fly to 187 countries some 15,000 times a day, while Star is formed of 27 airlines serving 194 countries with 22,000 daily departures.
Oneworld's share of global capacity stands at 11.6 percent, compared to SkyTeam's 18.3 percent and Star's 24.8 percent, according to CAPA data."
"Oneworld comprises 13 carriers serving 160 countries with 9,500 departures daily. SkyTeam's 19 airlines fly to 187 countries some 15,000 times a day, while Star is formed of 27 airlines serving 194 countries with 22,000 daily departures.
Oneworld's share of global capacity stands at 11.6 percent, compared to SkyTeam's 18.3 percent and Star's 24.8 percent, according to CAPA data."
#215
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 252
What happens with the miles? For example when can we redeem until? And do u think we will be able to buy points or will all that end? thats such a great scheme?
If I buy a bunch of miles now and redeem them, thats all well and good but if I dont, what would they be worth (any forecasts?) on the AA/merged program?
Thanks for any insights/predictions.
If I buy a bunch of miles now and redeem them, thats all well and good but if I dont, what would they be worth (any forecasts?) on the AA/merged program?
Thanks for any insights/predictions.
#216
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada
Programs: Star Alliance G*, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium,
Posts: 3,585
Star Alliance?
What happens with the miles? For example when can we redeem until? And do u think we will be able to buy points or will all that end? thats such a great scheme?
If I buy a bunch of miles now and redeem them, thats all well and good but if I dont, what would they be worth (any forecasts?) on the AA/merged program?
Thanks for any insights/predictions.
If I buy a bunch of miles now and redeem them, thats all well and good but if I dont, what would they be worth (any forecasts?) on the AA/merged program?
Thanks for any insights/predictions.
I checked the SEC filings and they say nothing about the issue.
#217
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,904
I can't believe this question has not been resolved! All they are saying is your miles will be honored. The new AA has major FF obligations and they have yet to say how this will be addressed. Will US leave the Star Alliance?
I checked the SEC filings and they say nothing about the issue.
I checked the SEC filings and they say nothing about the issue.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/20247425-post111.html
#218
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: US-CP, UA, Marriott Rewards, HHonors, Avis,
Posts: 4,549
I can't believe this question has not been resolved! All they are saying is your miles will be honored. The new AA has major FF obligations and they have yet to say how this will be addressed. Will US leave the Star Alliance?
I checked the SEC filings and they say nothing about the issue.
I checked the SEC filings and they say nothing about the issue.
#219
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA Gold. UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,776
I've read on the internets, so it must be true, statements that AA could return to service but it would require a lot of concessions (mostly financial). Is any of that true?
#220
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
???? AA hasn't stopped service and there's no reason why it should in the future.
Jim
Jim
#221
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: aadvantage
Posts: 10
American always had a reputation as an arrogant airline ( AA),
US always has a reputation as a bad airline ( useless Air
I have never seen mergers achieving a higher status and reputation.
So the merger will result in a lousy airline with old US service standards becoming the norm and American's behaviour during IROPS.
In addition they will have a patchy network in Europe ( dreadful hubs Hellrow and chaotic strike prone Madrid bar a bass ). In the other direction Transpac I also see no necessity to switch over.
My estimate is that we will see another (bigger) chapter 11 mess in 2015.
US always has a reputation as a bad airline ( useless Air
I have never seen mergers achieving a higher status and reputation.
So the merger will result in a lousy airline with old US service standards becoming the norm and American's behaviour during IROPS.
In addition they will have a patchy network in Europe ( dreadful hubs Hellrow and chaotic strike prone Madrid bar a bass ). In the other direction Transpac I also see no necessity to switch over.
My estimate is that we will see another (bigger) chapter 11 mess in 2015.
And, you can always take a train...
#222
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: USA
Programs: AA MARRIOTT Lifetime Plat Premier ; Marriott Vacation Club
Posts: 1,650
I'm a little surprised at the poll result showing a majority of ( thus far voting ) FT members saying this merger is not in the public interest. Likewise I really do not get some of the questions raised here as some folks are seeking immediate answers to questions which simply will not/can not be answered just days after the official merger is announced. For example, I am not at all surprised that AA & US are both mum on the FFer programs at this early stage & neither do I expect any guidance in this regard for the forseeable future. Then again, there remain many months to strategize and live within the current DM parameters. Historically, other mergers leave intact FF miles, though one should most definitely assume that changes are in the offing. No reason at this point in time to anticipate otherwise with this merger.
In short, I really do not get the pessimism expressed by some here. It's got a queasy 'deja vu' from the past when this forum was replete with negativism towards Tempe and US in general by a veneer of folks who lacked the patience to allow management to prove ( or disprove ) their mettle. And those of us who have been with US for a long time know well the "turbulence" we experienced when Tempe first came to town with their heads in the clouds and other anatomical places . I wish I could link to the ( content exclusive ) articles written thus far by the Wall Street Journal which walk through the breadth and depth of this merger.
What I myself am vibing at this moment is a sort of "pride" in US Air and Messers Parker/Isom pulling off a big merger in which US management is going to run this new AA. I remember well how just a few years ago folks saying that AA was the "crown jewel" of airline mergers and even more folks saying that a US-AA merger was a daydream ( I too would not have anticipated this occuring ). But here we are, Doug Parker is the new CEO of the merged AA, and this, for me is a cause for anticipation, if not excitement. There's no way at this moment to know with any certitude what's in store for the future as US brings to the table some ideas and practices which did indeed work and transform US into a more reliable airline.
But the one thing I do know is that the staid, vanilla suit and tie management of the old AA, is gonna have an open shirt CEO and some of his team calling the shots. At the very least, this is a reason to hang around and wait and see which US-centric concepts/practices might be introduced at AA, not immediately, but over time as the two separate airline cultures determine what the true character of this merged airline is gonna be. Provided they get the pilot seniority thing correct this time and management has it's eyes wide open on the operational end, this merger transition could be a very interesting thing to experience.
Now I do gotta admit, that my own biggest fear is the migration & integration of the reservation systems. I don't think that any merger has been able to do this flawlessly and I'm hoping that this systems integration, when it does occur is mostly smooth ( or that I'm not flying during those first few weeks ). But aside from the fact that I gotta wave goodbye to the US Airways name & symbol , I'm willing to patiently wait and see how things develop for me. PHL where I fly out of is likely to see changes as they determine the roles/relationships of these multiple hubs ( being so close to JFK is a negative for the PHL hub in the larger scheme of AA ).
One area of consternation I do understand amongst some is how their FFer strategy may deteriorate as for some, flying miles on US was driven only by the *A and ability to fly short but fly awards long on those *A partners. This might indeed eviscerate the strategy of some flyers. But I see this entire merger more in terms of an economic/sector inevitability. By some stroke of circumstance/luck, US & AA were the last two partners at the big airline dance. Not exactly a shotgun wedding, nor is the bride ugly. According to the WSJ ( who attributes the airlines ) only 12 of 900 routes overlap. In this regard, a match made in heave in terms of regulators & other operational entanglements.
But hey, I'm also a realist. There's a lot of things which can go wrong and months of hard work both before and after operations are integrated. The only thing I can't say is which specific things will go wrong. I'm gonna hope that the computer integration is not as ugly as the AWA/US merger as that would not be fun at all. I'm gonna be patient and hope for the best. If the WSJ ever unlocks some of their recent content, I'll post links, as these things sometimes do become accessible.
Barry
In short, I really do not get the pessimism expressed by some here. It's got a queasy 'deja vu' from the past when this forum was replete with negativism towards Tempe and US in general by a veneer of folks who lacked the patience to allow management to prove ( or disprove ) their mettle. And those of us who have been with US for a long time know well the "turbulence" we experienced when Tempe first came to town with their heads in the clouds and other anatomical places . I wish I could link to the ( content exclusive ) articles written thus far by the Wall Street Journal which walk through the breadth and depth of this merger.
What I myself am vibing at this moment is a sort of "pride" in US Air and Messers Parker/Isom pulling off a big merger in which US management is going to run this new AA. I remember well how just a few years ago folks saying that AA was the "crown jewel" of airline mergers and even more folks saying that a US-AA merger was a daydream ( I too would not have anticipated this occuring ). But here we are, Doug Parker is the new CEO of the merged AA, and this, for me is a cause for anticipation, if not excitement. There's no way at this moment to know with any certitude what's in store for the future as US brings to the table some ideas and practices which did indeed work and transform US into a more reliable airline.
But the one thing I do know is that the staid, vanilla suit and tie management of the old AA, is gonna have an open shirt CEO and some of his team calling the shots. At the very least, this is a reason to hang around and wait and see which US-centric concepts/practices might be introduced at AA, not immediately, but over time as the two separate airline cultures determine what the true character of this merged airline is gonna be. Provided they get the pilot seniority thing correct this time and management has it's eyes wide open on the operational end, this merger transition could be a very interesting thing to experience.
Now I do gotta admit, that my own biggest fear is the migration & integration of the reservation systems. I don't think that any merger has been able to do this flawlessly and I'm hoping that this systems integration, when it does occur is mostly smooth ( or that I'm not flying during those first few weeks ). But aside from the fact that I gotta wave goodbye to the US Airways name & symbol , I'm willing to patiently wait and see how things develop for me. PHL where I fly out of is likely to see changes as they determine the roles/relationships of these multiple hubs ( being so close to JFK is a negative for the PHL hub in the larger scheme of AA ).
One area of consternation I do understand amongst some is how their FFer strategy may deteriorate as for some, flying miles on US was driven only by the *A and ability to fly short but fly awards long on those *A partners. This might indeed eviscerate the strategy of some flyers. But I see this entire merger more in terms of an economic/sector inevitability. By some stroke of circumstance/luck, US & AA were the last two partners at the big airline dance. Not exactly a shotgun wedding, nor is the bride ugly. According to the WSJ ( who attributes the airlines ) only 12 of 900 routes overlap. In this regard, a match made in heave in terms of regulators & other operational entanglements.
But hey, I'm also a realist. There's a lot of things which can go wrong and months of hard work both before and after operations are integrated. The only thing I can't say is which specific things will go wrong. I'm gonna hope that the computer integration is not as ugly as the AWA/US merger as that would not be fun at all. I'm gonna be patient and hope for the best. If the WSJ ever unlocks some of their recent content, I'll post links, as these things sometimes do become accessible.
Barry
#223
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: LAF, VIE
Programs: A3 *G; AA EXP
Posts: 509
less competition = higher prices (and probably less routes) as seen in the recent Delta/NWA and United/Continental mergers
#224
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: US-CP, UA, Marriott Rewards, HHonors, Avis,
Posts: 4,549
Plus, the perceived step down in alliance membership coupled with the feedback from many CO/UA elites who were not happy with that merger are good sources of pessimism. Are people perhaps being too pessimistic? Sure, there's always that chance. Change isn't always fun but it's not always as bad as you expect it to be. But I don't think it's purely a fear of change that is driving the general lack of enthusiasm over this merger.
FWIW some numbers of "overlapping routes" are reported by some to be fuzzy math, as some are tallying only point-to-point routes. On these, aka nonstop flights, there truly is only a little overlap. Where the consumer is more likely to feel a pinch is in routings requiring a connection, moreso in city pairs where US and AA are currently the dominant carriers. I will need to find the article--- I believe it was Cranky Flier?--- but there are quite a few more of these, and when you remove the competition from these routes, they become a lot less consumer-friendly.
FWIW some numbers of "overlapping routes" are reported by some to be fuzzy math, as some are tallying only point-to-point routes. On these, aka nonstop flights, there truly is only a little overlap. Where the consumer is more likely to feel a pinch is in routings requiring a connection, moreso in city pairs where US and AA are currently the dominant carriers. I will need to find the article--- I believe it was Cranky Flier?--- but there are quite a few more of these, and when you remove the competition from these routes, they become a lot less consumer-friendly.
#225
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Lifetime Plat, SPG Plat, AMEX Plat, Hertz PC, Travels too Much Platinum
Posts: 3,290
Likewise I really do not get some of the questions raised here as some folks are seeking immediate answers to questions which simply will not/can not be answered just days after the official merger is announced. For example, I am not at all surprised that AA & US are both mum on the FFer programs at this early stage & neither do I expect any guidance in this regard for the foreseeable future.
In short, I really do not get the pessimism expressed by some here. It's got a queasy 'deja vu' from the past when this forum was replete with negativism towards Tempe and US in general by a veneer of folks who lacked the patience to allow management to prove ( or disprove ) their mettle. And those of us who have been with US for a long time know well the "turbulence" we experienced when Tempe first came to town with their heads in the clouds and other anatomical places . I wish I could link to the ( content exclusive ) articles written thus far by the Wall Street Journal which walk through the breadth and depth of this merger.
Hopefully, the Tempe crew learned from their last integration, as the success of the airline rides on it. Operational and financial results for US in the past few years seem to indicate that they have. Solid financials are of course a prerequisite for investment in the customer experience - US has been frugal but getting better in recent years.
Now I do gotta admit, that my own biggest fear is the migration & integration of the reservation systems. I don't think that any merger has been able to do this flawlessly and I'm hoping that this systems integration, when it does occur is mostly smooth ( or that I'm not flying during those first few weeks ).
But aside from the fact that I gotta wave goodbye to the US Airways name & symbol , I'm willing to patiently wait and see how things develop for me. PHL where I fly out of is likely to see changes as they determine the roles/relationships of these multiple hubs ( being so close to JFK is a negative for the PHL hub in the larger scheme of AA ).
It's easy to say that the presence of JFK being close to PHL means that PHL should close as a hub like PIT, but this might be a rare case where two close hubs might work - AA's (tiny) JFK hub is all about NYC origin traffic, and PHL is the hub for the NE US. Just like they won't try to get NYC-originating traffic to come to PHL for flights to places like LHR or LAX, the opposite can't occur because it's so hard to actually get to JFK. Managed properly, both can thrive. Those claiming that PHL should immediately close as a hub are usually just looking at a map and have no actual experience with travel between the two cities or an understanding of where their traffic comes from. While DCA can support connecting traffic better than JFK, it too can't take on more traffic and is more about capturing revenue from the DC market than acting as a hub.
I'll miss the US logo too - I think the new AA livery is hideous. I hope it grows on me. But livery is really pretty irrelevant.
But I see this entire merger more in terms of an economic/sector inevitability. By some stroke of circumstance/luck, US & AA were the last two partners at the big airline dance. Not exactly a shotgun wedding, nor is the bride ugly. According to the WSJ ( who attributes the airlines ) only 12 of 900 routes overlap. In this regard, a match made in heave in terms of regulators & other operational entanglements.