UAL's Investor Day (Highlights: Route, Gauge Changes; $ Cuts)
Nov 25, 2013, 4:37 pm
#466
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
[Needlessly disruptive text edited by Moderator.]Correction: OP says he gets upgraded 100% of the time using certs, so maybe never had the opportunity...
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; Nov 25, 2013 at 6:24 pm Reason: Per FT Rules.
Nov 25, 2013, 4:38 pm
#467
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
Nov 25, 2013, 4:44 pm
#468
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 21,603
Nov 25, 2013, 4:46 pm
#469
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: YVR SFO
Programs: UA G
Posts: 4,866
Thanks for helping him out, Very "FlyerTalk Friendly tm" ... he says he flies internationally on UAL all the time and is based in SFO.... and on all of these flights on 772s he has never turned on the screen, had no idea.
Correction: OP says he gets upgraded 100% of the time using certs, so maybe never had the opportunity...
Correction: OP says he gets upgraded 100% of the time using certs, so maybe never had the opportunity...
That said, the last time I did an international flight in Y was a 747 in 2010. The 1K SWUs have been good to me for several years now ^
Last edited by iluv2fly; Nov 25, 2013 at 11:33 pm Reason: quote
Nov 25, 2013, 5:18 pm
#470
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: LAS HNL
Programs: DL DM, 5.7 MM, UA 3.1 MM, MARRIOTT PLATINUM, AVIS FIRST, Amex Black Card
Posts: 4,479
Look at this chart (1 year) and tell me UA is on the right track.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=D...rce=undefined;
How did UA fall to #2?
Delta Air Lines (DAL) carried the most systemwide passengers among U.S. airlines in August, according to new data from the Department of Transportation.
Perhaps UA needs a leader like Richard H. Anderson - Chief Executive Officer and Director, Delta Air Lines Inc.
DL may have a poor FF program, but the employes are the best. Service on AA and DL are better than UA.
And UA needs to get this "merger" over and start to work as a team. It's been 3+ years. Cut the management and Union garbage and work together. I do not know what it will take. Perhaps ask Richard Anderson?
There are some fantastic employees at UA. But let both former UA and CO employees work together and Houston Res. have a little customer service training. If not, send those jobs back to India.
It's funny, I thought Texans were friendly. I have had the worst service calling Houston. I lived in Texas for 5 years, and I love the Lone Star State, but what did UA/CO do, find the rudest most unfriendly people in the largest State in the lower 48 to answer phones and take of problems.
I still fly UA. Only non-stop. UA metal. I only fly UA about 30% of the time. Most of my flights are on DL. Some AA and WN.
I am on a plane 3-4 days a week. Happy Thanksgiving.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=D...rce=undefined;
How did UA fall to #2?
Delta Air Lines (DAL) carried the most systemwide passengers among U.S. airlines in August, according to new data from the Department of Transportation.
Perhaps UA needs a leader like Richard H. Anderson - Chief Executive Officer and Director, Delta Air Lines Inc.
DL may have a poor FF program, but the employes are the best. Service on AA and DL are better than UA.
And UA needs to get this "merger" over and start to work as a team. It's been 3+ years. Cut the management and Union garbage and work together. I do not know what it will take. Perhaps ask Richard Anderson?
There are some fantastic employees at UA. But let both former UA and CO employees work together and Houston Res. have a little customer service training. If not, send those jobs back to India.
It's funny, I thought Texans were friendly. I have had the worst service calling Houston. I lived in Texas for 5 years, and I love the Lone Star State, but what did UA/CO do, find the rudest most unfriendly people in the largest State in the lower 48 to answer phones and take of problems.
I still fly UA. Only non-stop. UA metal. I only fly UA about 30% of the time. Most of my flights are on DL. Some AA and WN.
I am on a plane 3-4 days a week. Happy Thanksgiving.
Nov 25, 2013, 5:33 pm
#471
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP,2MM, DL Gold,Starwood PLT
Posts: 3,876
UA likes to talk up their best hubs and network in the business. But they are also generally in the most competitive markets in the country. ORD/IAD/DEN/LAX/EWR all have tons competition at the given airport or one in the competing metro area. SFO is really their only "fortress" hub. Carriers like DL/US and AA ( at DFW/MIA) face very little competition at their key hubs.
Nov 25, 2013, 5:43 pm
#472
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: LAS HNL
Programs: DL DM, 5.7 MM, UA 3.1 MM, MARRIOTT PLATINUM, AVIS FIRST, Amex Black Card
Posts: 4,479
UA likes to talk up their best hubs and network in the business. But they are also generally in the most competitive markets in the country. ORD/IAD/DEN/LAX/EWR all have tons competition at the given airport or one in the competing metro area. SFO is really their only "fortress" hub. Carriers like DL/US and AA ( at DFW/MIA) face very little competition at their key hubs.
And the "fortress" hub - SFO has weather delays every other day.
I fly all 3 major carriers every week. Why do passengers choose UA? Its sure not the service. Miles?
Nov 25, 2013, 6:35 pm
#473
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
UA likes to talk up their best hubs and network in the business. But they are also generally in the most competitive markets in the country. ORD/IAD/DEN/LAX/EWR all have tons competition at the given airport or one in the competing metro area. SFO is really their only "fortress" hub. Carriers like DL/US and AA ( at DFW/MIA) face very little competition at their key hubs.
I think of IAH and EWR as being their only fortress hubs. Although, with JFK and LGA so close is EWR technically a fortress?
mitch - check out the chart at this link:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...lines/3650281/
FARES AT 100 LARGE U.S. AIRPORTS
First-quarter 2013 average domestic fares, the change since first-quarter 2005 after adjusting for inflation, and the change in available seats on domestic flights for the same period:
Interesting fact:
Columns are (1) Average fare, (2) Price change since 2005, (3) Change in number of seats since 2005.
SFO San Francisco (1) $414 (2) -16.6% (3) 22.2%
22.2 % is the second largest increase in seats among the 100 largest airports.
-16.6 is the fourth largest drop in fares.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...lines/3650281/
FARES AT 100 LARGE U.S. AIRPORTS
First-quarter 2013 average domestic fares, the change since first-quarter 2005 after adjusting for inflation, and the change in available seats on domestic flights for the same period:
Interesting fact:
Columns are (1) Average fare, (2) Price change since 2005, (3) Change in number of seats since 2005.
SFO San Francisco (1) $414 (2) -16.6% (3) 22.2%
22.2 % is the second largest increase in seats among the 100 largest airports.
-16.6 is the fourth largest drop in fares.
Nov 25, 2013, 6:43 pm
#474
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,169
Based on the pricing analysis Nate Silver and others have done (believe IAH/EWR are the two most over-priced / anti-competitive in the country?), EWR is most definitely a fortress
Nov 25, 2013, 11:35 pm
#475
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
How the NY Times got it so wrong on airline pricing
http://blog.wandr.me/2011/04/how-the...rline-pricing/
"Yesterday had a bit of a buzz on the internet regarding a piece about airfare pricing from Nate Silver that was published on his NY Times politics blog. The post, filled with mathematical analysis, attempts to use statistics to determine which airports have unfairly high fares relative to others providing comparable service. And I’m sure the math involved is accurate. I have no doubt that someone as statistically gifted as Silver got the regression analysis correct when he ran the numbers. But the findings are still miserably flawed.
Why? Because several of the assumptions made simply do not apply to air travel.
Silver acknowledges that most the other folks who have tackled this topic have made specific flaws in their assumptions. He aims to correct these but instead makes some tragic assumptions of his own."
I am going to miss Silver in 2016...
I cannot believe he left the NYT for ESPN!!?!
Nate's original post (Unfair fares): http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...-unfair-fares/
Nate even gave a primer on hidden city ticketing!:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/ma...version-t.html
Last: How could I exclude IAD?
UA fortress hubs: IAH, IAD, EWR
Nov 25, 2013, 11:49 pm
#476
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: 대한민국 (South Korea) - ex-PVG (上海)
Programs: UA MM / LT Gold (LT UC), DL SM, AA PLT (AC), OZ, KE; GE and Korean SES (like GE); Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,995
If the spouse only uses the status nce or twice per year then it results in a lot of wallet candy at minimal cost and fewer RPU and GPU instruments being given out.
Nov 26, 2013, 2:04 am
#477
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,693
I'm a PMUA loyalist like many here, but let's not forget the history. PMUA was in far worse shape financially than PMCO. And setting aside Tilton and Brace's massive incentives (multimillion $ golden parachutes) for consummating a deal, PMUA needed the merger for long-term sustainability more than PMCO. And this was *after* UA's bankruptcy, when they got to shed costs and liabilities and in theory get their act together.
Nov 26, 2013, 3:16 am
#478
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
UA likes to talk up their best hubs and network in the business. But they are also generally in the most competitive markets in the country. ORD/IAD/DEN/LAX/EWR all have tons competition at the given airport or one in the competing metro area. SFO is really their only "fortress" hub. Carriers like DL/US and AA ( at DFW/MIA) face very little competition at their key hubs.
If SFO is a fortress, it's a weak one at that. UA has only about 1/3 the market share at SFO, and there are major markets not served by UA (MIA, ATL, CLT), and several other markets with very light frequency that the nonstop value proposition doesn't work unless timing is right. And the highest frequency markets have significant direct competition (e.g., LAX, JFK, ORD, SEA, PHX, DFW) where OALs sometimes have comparable, if not better frequency, and sometimes better equipment.
Plus with WN and B6 at OAK (which UA no longer serves), and everybody at SJC (with UA's very limited SJC presence), the market is extremely stratified.
I didn't check the numbers, but if you strip out the int'l stuff out of SFO and compare only domestic numbers, I bet UA's market share is even lower.
As for EWR, yes there's more competition if you're willing to use LGA or JFK, but that's only reasonable if you don't live in Jersey. The NYC traffic is a killer so UA really has a stronghold mostly on the Jersey residents.
Nov 26, 2013, 9:09 am
#479
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
If SFO is a fortress, it's a weak one at that. UA has only about 1/3 the market share at SFO, and there are major markets not served by UA (MIA, ATL, CLT), and several other markets with very light frequency that the nonstop value proposition doesn't work unless timing is right. And the highest frequency markets have significant direct competition (e.g., LAX, JFK, ORD, SEA, PHX, DFW) where OALs sometimes have comparable, if not better frequency, and sometimes better equipment.
Plus with WN and B6 at OAK (which UA no longer serves), and everybody at SJC (with UA's very limited SJC presence), the market is extremely stratified.
I didn't check the numbers, but if you strip out the int'l stuff out of SFO and compare only domestic numbers, I bet UA's market share is even lower.
As for EWR, yes there's more competition if you're willing to use LGA or JFK, but that's only reasonable if you don't live in Jersey. The NYC traffic is a killer so UA really has a stronghold mostly on the Jersey residents.
Plus with WN and B6 at OAK (which UA no longer serves), and everybody at SJC (with UA's very limited SJC presence), the market is extremely stratified.
I didn't check the numbers, but if you strip out the int'l stuff out of SFO and compare only domestic numbers, I bet UA's market share is even lower.
As for EWR, yes there's more competition if you're willing to use LGA or JFK, but that's only reasonable if you don't live in Jersey. The NYC traffic is a killer so UA really has a stronghold mostly on the Jersey residents.
Are you not including UAX? UA is much higher than 33% (with Express), close to 50% I think.
Plus, no single competitor has greater than 8 or 9% at SFO. Even the combination of AA and US does not reach 10%.
So, while not a fortress (strong pricing power for UA), UA certainly is dominant.
As you are aware I am sure, ATL begins in the spring of 2014.
Nov 26, 2013, 9:32 am
#480
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
Plus with WN and B6 at OAK (which UA no longer serves), and everybody at SJC (with UA's very limited SJC presence), the market is extremely stratified.
[snip]
As for EWR, yes there's more competition if you're willing to use LGA or JFK, but that's only reasonable if you don't live in Jersey. The NYC traffic is a killer so UA really has a stronghold mostly on the Jersey residents.
[snip]
As for EWR, yes there's more competition if you're willing to use LGA or JFK, but that's only reasonable if you don't live in Jersey. The NYC traffic is a killer so UA really has a stronghold mostly on the Jersey residents.