Design the new process to solve IVDB (a constructive, positive thread)
#151
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#152
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UA should have made a similar announcement before DL beat them to the punch. Again, it will be UA following DL's lead.
This could have been major damage control for UA when they need it. Instead, UA management in "the windy city" blew a great PR opportunity.
DL had the lowest IDB rates of any other major carrier, because they pay more. I posted this up-thread.
An Associated Press analysis of government data shows that in 2015 and 2016, Delta paid an average of $1,118 in compensation for every passenger that it denied a seat. Southwest Airlines paid $758, United $565, and American Airlines $554.
#153
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Interpretation 2: Delta overbooks to a greater degree, and has to pay more as a result.
#154
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Many people will take $200 to $2000. DL asks when you check in how much you would take.
UA should have made a similar announcement before DL beat them to the punch. Again, it will be UA following DL's lead.
This could have been major damage control for UA when they need it. Instead, UA management in "the windy city" blew a great PR opportunity.
DL had the lowest IDB rates of any other major carrier, because they pay more. I posted this up-thread.
UA should have made a similar announcement before DL beat them to the punch. Again, it will be UA following DL's lead.
This could have been major damage control for UA when they need it. Instead, UA management in "the windy city" blew a great PR opportunity.
DL had the lowest IDB rates of any other major carrier, because they pay more. I posted this up-thread.
of course you need to set a sweet spot for VDB to avoid getting Dao'd. But simply having more IDB isn't a bad thing.
#155
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"Compensation" does not mean it was cash. Most of the time it is vouchers good for one year. Many of these vouchers are never used. A voucher cost the airline very little. Cash would be another story.
#156
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If you're waiting for it to go to $9000, I'm volunteering for $500. Capitalism is about greed and being greedy, I will take it for $500 because I'm afraid of someone else taking it at $600 before I can volunteer, in which case I get $0.
#157
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Except for those who will not ever fly UA again, people value free tickets at a higher rate than what it costs UA. If UA funny money isn't enough, then they should offer free unrestricted coach tickets anywhere UA flies. In theory it might cost UA $3,000 in the Y bucket but since those are rarely filled, in practice it costs them little. But if free tickets isn't enough, then offer cash. Or free tickets and cash. I refuse to buy into the myth that all 70 people will refuse two free F tickets anywhere in the world and $2,500 cash, and the idea of the passengers colluding to drive up the price of VDB is just laughable.
And also making it expire in 2 years, not one year. I rarely fly UA. I wouldn't want a voucher good for a year. I will have to be dragged off and also get a broken nose and get some teeth knocked out. I would look like this before and this afterwards (no teeth).
I rarely add apps. I don't trust them. Back in the Palm Pilot days, I had a bunch of apps, like the Continental flight schedule but no more.
No, that is a sneaky ticket price increase. How about if you are IDB, you can have them go down the line and add your own money to the pot.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 14, 2017 at 11:19 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
#158
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http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/12/these...assengers.html
DL's ratio is 32:1, competing with VX for the highest ratio. United's is 9:1. Frontier is the worst (at about 3:1).
I'm wondering...perhaps rather than going after individual cases there should be some sort of fine if an airline's VDB:IDB ratio (or even just if their IDB rate) is too high? The idea that, for example, Expressjet and Skywest oversell by that much (nearly one in every 500 pax who show up being denied their seat) is boggling to the mind.
#159
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This announcement alone is worth more than 12 million in PR to tragetted audience than general vague commercial airlines run on expensive TV ad slots.
#160
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add a option on united.com at final payment to reduce the fare by $5 if you consent in advance to be chosen for a required IVDB. passenger still gets the standard IVDB payout of course.
make the amount low enough so that only 5% or so of passengers would be interested in the savings. once enough volunteers secured for a flight, no longer offer the option for that light on new United.com bookings.
make the amount low enough so that only 5% or so of passengers would be interested in the savings. once enough volunteers secured for a flight, no longer offer the option for that light on new United.com bookings.
#161
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We may be saying the same thing here: I suggest that zero-IDB can be a goal, and an airline can get incredibly close by using technology better. I realize they cannot fully get to zero.
I don't believe IDB will be banned outright as some suggest. I continue to remain in favor of overselling, whether to paying passengers or with confirmed crew movements as part of the passenger load. Even the best technology and intentions of an airline can't prevent a broken seat, a weight issue, or some other reason that an IDB *could* happen.
The only regulatory fix is a simple one: make the IDB cash compensation meaningful, require each airline to fully publish their entire IDB algorithm, and provide some simple consumer protections on the instruments offered as VDB. Don't need to overhaul the system or change airline revenue management models. Just a measured action to provide some basic consumer protections that don't exist today.
I don't believe IDB will be banned outright as some suggest. I continue to remain in favor of overselling, whether to paying passengers or with confirmed crew movements as part of the passenger load. Even the best technology and intentions of an airline can't prevent a broken seat, a weight issue, or some other reason that an IDB *could* happen.
The only regulatory fix is a simple one: make the IDB cash compensation meaningful, require each airline to fully publish their entire IDB algorithm, and provide some simple consumer protections on the instruments offered as VDB. Don't need to overhaul the system or change airline revenue management models. Just a measured action to provide some basic consumer protections that don't exist today.
The furor over this IDB situation is a highly emotional one to say the least, and this IDB story, like every other complaint anyone has about any airline they don't like, is mostly based on anecdotal experience. UA is not significantly worse at handling VDBs and IDBs than much of its competitors, and B6's commitment to never overbooking doesn't mean that they don't have some pretty crappy IDB rates as of late.
The issue here really has nothing to do with overbooking. The issue has to do with calling in LEOs who used excessive force on a passenger, and then UA's piss poor initial response to the entire thing. Had UA simply said "this video is horrifying and we're going to do an investigation to figure out what happened," even if nobody at UA actually believed that, the story probably would have died the next day.
#162
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Yeah, look at the IDB numbers of B6 last year. Not impressed.
http://crankyflier.com/2016/12/26/fo...-of-travelers/
has the stats for 2016.
http://crankyflier.com/2016/12/26/fo...-of-travelers/
has the stats for 2016.
I'll just throw out an example: Let's say that for some reason this was an ORD-EWR flight instead, but everything else remains the same (with an adjustment to the length of the flight, of course). At that point, "other carrier" transport on Amtrak would be faster than waiting out the delay (and you'd be more than able to make the Lake Shore Limited, too...that doesn't depart until 2130). The same general fact pattern would apply to a slew of other destinations (Cleveland, Detroit, St. Louis, Buffalo, Memphis, and New Orleans). If you're willing to just bite the bullet on Greyhound the list grows.
I think restricting restrictions on vouchers would be another thing to consider. Require that VDB vouchers be "same as cash" with the airline (I think I mentioned this elsewhere), including the ability to use more than one on a reservation and/or partially use them on a reservation. I'd also strip away the requirement that the person issued the voucher be on the reservation, though I would be willing to allow them to require that if they weren't on said reservation then they need to, at some point, be physically present and present ID to redeem for someone else or to transfer ownership (e.g. I'd need to head over to my local airport within some timeframe to confirm it). I do get the fraud concern there, but if the voucher were essentially an unrestricted negotiable instrument (aside from only being valid with the airline) then UA would probably have had takers at $800 since I think someone on here would happily have bought that unrestricted $800 voucher for $600.
#163
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Perhaps I should clarify. No IDB whatsoever. once the person had his Boarding Pass scanned and is therefore considered "boarded" whether actually in his seat, on the plane or queuing in the jetway.
I do think that the current caps on IDB compensation should become floors instead with no cap. And those "floors" should be adjusted upward annually for inflation.
I do think that the current caps on IDB compensation should become floors instead with no cap. And those "floors" should be adjusted upward annually for inflation.
#164
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Regardless, the other part of getting people to take VDB is reaccomodation and the airlines need to be more creative. In the case of Dr. Dao's incident UA should not have been offering $800 and accommodation on a flight the next day, instead they should have been offering $800 and a six hour van ride that got passengers home that night.
#165
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Perhaps I should clarify. No IDB whatsoever. once the person had his Boarding Pass scanned and is therefore considered "boarded" whether actually in his seat, on the plane or queuing in the jetway.
I do think that the current caps on IDB compensation should become floors instead with no cap. And those "floors" should be adjusted upward annually for inflation.
I do think that the current caps on IDB compensation should become floors instead with no cap. And those "floors" should be adjusted upward annually for inflation.