Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.
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WineCountryUA
N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
#796
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K+K
Programs: *G
Posts: 4,871
What would he have done if he wore a stuffed trench coat and walked through security? What would he have done if he was peacefully enjoying a tea in his apartment and the police busted through the door? What do these suppositions even matter?
#797
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North America
Posts: 2,265
..."Fly Delta: Even if we get you to your destination five days late, we promise not to assault you physically."
#798
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
The GAs are trained that if someone is on the plane the computer says is not supposed to be on the plane, they are to be removed.
What do you think a better procedure / training issue would be in this case? (And it's not UA expecting the Chicago PD to do this, it's the operating carrier.)
What do you think a better procedure / training issue would be in this case? (And it's not UA expecting the Chicago PD to do this, it's the operating carrier.)
That is ultimately what this is...UA refused to think of any alternative customer service gestures and ended up with a PR nightmare of their own making. I don't care if it was a connection carrier, they are DBA United Airlines. No one outside of the industry, DOT or flyertalk cares about the distinction.
UA overbooked and was too cheap to pay people to get off the plane. The police are there to ensure public safety. He wasn't making any threats, he wasn't acting violently toward the crew or other passengers.
And don't give me the, need to comply with all crew member instructions. That is for the safety and security of everyone on board, not to again fix their customer service issue.
UA had plenty of options before calling the cops, like increasing their voucher, offering cash, offering a rental car, offering a taxi ride, offering miles, club passes, food vouchers, a nicer hotel, but no, they stuck to their guns and hid behind their CoC and the "must comply with all crew instructions" And how did that work out for them?
And I'm not normally a blame the airline guy, they've got a hard job with logistics to deal with that I can't even begin to fathom.
But this was just plain wrong, even if they were legally right.
#799
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 6km East of EPAYE
Programs: UA Silver, AA Platinum, AS & DL GM Marriott TE, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,582
"I could shout out Wu Tang, that don't mean I'm in the Wu Tang Clan" - Dave Chappelle
#800
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: BNA (Nashville)
Programs: HH Diamond
Posts: 6,229
When you decide it is cheaper to physically drag customers off a plane instead of sweetening the volunteer offer, then maybe its time to admit that you view your customers with contempt.
#802
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LAS
Programs: PA FT, TW Gold, NW/CO PE, VK Eagleflyer
Posts: 7,173
That's a bit baby and bathwater don't you think? This company has 86,000 employees and I can honestly say in my nearly 500 united flights only two negative FA/ GA memories stick out in my head. Also, this flight was operated by republic airlines on behalf of United Airlines.
#803
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Platinum, SPG+Marriott Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 33
I agree with you. When you travel frequently, you are often witness to the shenanigans people, especially the elite and near-elite travelers, pull; such as, stowing two pieces of hand luggage in the overhead despite it being a full flight. It's a misplaced sense of entitlement and affinity for airline perks that prevents them from having a human reaction to a fellow human being in distress.
#804
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,211
This story is on my local news no less than 5 times in the past 45 minutes, and the network news hasn't started yet, which will give it more air time to more people.
The consensus is definitely against United - at this point, it would have been cheaper to charter the Dr a private jet to fly him home...a few days from now, who knows how bad the damage will be. This is one of the worst airline vs passenger stories to hit the news in a long time, and so far it has enough legs to displace Putin, Trump, a school shooting, and North Korea's Dear Leader.
As to that old saying there is no such thing as bad publicity....well, today there is.
The consensus is definitely against United - at this point, it would have been cheaper to charter the Dr a private jet to fly him home...a few days from now, who knows how bad the damage will be. This is one of the worst airline vs passenger stories to hit the news in a long time, and so far it has enough legs to displace Putin, Trump, a school shooting, and North Korea's Dear Leader.
As to that old saying there is no such thing as bad publicity....well, today there is.
#805
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: YVR
Posts: 1,847
United doesn't want to get into the practice of deciding which passengers "circumstances" are more important than others. They can't select that guy, and then have him say "But wait, I'm a physician" and then let him stay. What if the next person says "Well, I'm a lawyer and my client has trial tomorrow", and the next person says, "I'm a mother and my child will be home alone". It could go on and on. United can't be subjectively deciding who's reasons are more valid.
Once they've asked for volunteers and not gotten any, whoever is selected gets asked to leave. Surely they can speak up and state their case, but if another passenger doesn't then volunteer, the original selection is SOL.
Once they've asked for volunteers and not gotten any, whoever is selected gets asked to leave. Surely they can speak up and state their case, but if another passenger doesn't then volunteer, the original selection is SOL.
It would make the most sense to not even get to that point where people don't want to be bumped. That's just ASKING for trouble. For me personally, I take such short trips (usually 3-5 days), almost always have a connection, and so bumping me would have a domino effect and likely ruin my entire trip. So YEAH, I'd kick up a HUGE stink and start relaying regulation and saying they should be offering $1300+ for someone to voluntarily give up their seat before IDBing someone. And I'd be recording it on my phone the whole time and asking them to speak up so I can get a proper recording of their response.
I think airlines are counting on people to just take it up the tailpipe. But now that situations like this are front page news, the airlines need to be VERY careful to not create their own PR nightmare.
They can surely continue to oversell flights, but they need to be more up-front about the process, with documented procedures outlined for passengers.
#806
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NYC, FLL
Programs: UA PP 1MM, Marriott Bonvoy LTTE, BA Gold
Posts: 6,324
^ Everything kop84 said.
6pm US EST approaching, UA aren't out of the woods yet...
6pm US EST approaching, UA aren't out of the woods yet...
#807
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 563
My guess is the price has just gone up for these offers. Clearly somebody in a leadership position made a cynical calculation as to what amount they'd go up to before resorting to more drastic measures to maximize profits from this overbooking practice. Now you are going to see more people willing to escalate these situations. At the very least, United is going to make darn sure not to board folks onto the aircraft that will then need to be pulled out of their seats. And for all the armchair lawyers out there, I'd love to be in a civil jury to hear United argue that 'boarding' doesn't mean what everybody else on the planet understands it to mean.
#808
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 186
But that'd be even more money down the drain. Overbooking is so standard in the travel industry, it's not even worth making it an issue here. Most of the time nobody will ever notice because a significant % of people don't show up.
If you do get into a mess, you reaccommodate people. Most people are willing to go along with that.
This is a rare and extreme case as various unusual factors came together that affected the choices that had to be made.
If you do get into a mess, you reaccommodate people. Most people are willing to go along with that.
This is a rare and extreme case as various unusual factors came together that affected the choices that had to be made.
Did they overbook or are they just kicking passengers off for deadhead employees - because that's what it appears to be.
United what maxed out offerings at 800, why not go up to the limit if 1300, or highe. This will now cost them millions.
End of the days this is unites fault, they let people on the plane, they didn't offer enough, they didn't plan there employees travel. What we are seeing now days Is more and more push back from people who keep getting screwed while travelling. The airlines Need to adjust, so far they havnt.
#809
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Platinum, SPG+Marriott Platinum, National Executive Elite
Posts: 33
But that'd be even more money down the drain. Overbooking is so standard in the travel industry, it's not even worth making it an issue here. Most of the time nobody will ever notice because a significant % of people don't show up.
If you do get into a mess, you reaccommodate people. Most people are willing to go along with that.
This is a rare and extreme case as various unusual factors came together that affected the choices that had to be made.
If you do get into a mess, you reaccommodate people. Most people are willing to go along with that.
This is a rare and extreme case as various unusual factors came together that affected the choices that had to be made.
There are strict consumer protection rules in Europe to prevent such dastardly incidents; however, in the US, passengers are at the mercy of the whims and fancies of even low-level GAs/FAs.
Frankly, when you pay $500 for a seat your next-seat neighbor paid $200 for, that's United playing "free market economics". They should apply the same principle when they overbook flights, thereby wantonly inconveniencing poor passengers.
#810
Join Date: Jun 2007
Programs: aa, usair
Posts: 12
I am a bit biased I lost my Dad on 911 on UA 93
Arguments like these piss me off to no end. Because you trot these out until it happens to YOU and your family. If that's the case, why don't we give airline employees the power to administer rectal exams of every passenger?
Ya know, 'cuz 911 and safety.
No person should EVER be assaulted by a police officer acting on behalf of a profit-seeking company. Ever. If anything, that makes me a patriot.
Ya know, 'cuz 911 and safety.
No person should EVER be assaulted by a police officer acting on behalf of a profit-seeking company. Ever. If anything, that makes me a patriot.
What I said was very clear.After 911 we lost some of our rights. I don't like it one bit. I agree United was wrong. We live in the real world. We live in a world where we have lost these rights. Like jobs in Coal country they are not coming back. The only thing we can do at this point is change the law. We can stop the government from taking our right to the seat without compensation. UA is using the law to enforce this rule. UA can claim that the person by not giving up his seat interfered with the future operation of the flight the UA crew was going to crew. Maybe I should have been more clear. We are at the point where we have to comply with the crew. Period I dont like it either. Once the police came onto the flight they had the duty of taking the person off the flight.The crew can say that the passenger was non compliant and a safety issue. Police are legally allowed to use force to make someone obey a lawful order. It does not make it right. But the way I read the law the crew can do just about anything they want in the name of "safety" Let's say they let the passenger stay on the flight after the altercation. He was hit on the head, he was acting erratically. I for one would be worried what he would do on the flight. I would get off the plane. Let's CHANGE the law. Make it a law that in these situations the airline has to ion until they get a volunteer. We need to work to see this never happens again.