mozilla

Increased competition prevents airfare levels in European and Asian markets from surging as much as they do in the U.S. Sure, one could always point to LAX-LAS and say that there is a lot of competition, but that's ignoring the many markets, like IAH-SFO, where that is not the case. If the recession doesn't pan out, then only more competition will stem the rise of U.S. domestic airfares, which in some markets is already flirting with pre-deregulation levels adjusted for inflation.

It has become clear that, for several reasons, there is no domestic appetite to launch a new airline in a class that can compete with the legacies. The U.S. should start considering easing of cabotage rules in a safe and responsible way.

mduell

IAH-SFO more than a couple days out is $200ish RT, or 6 cpm... not the most compelling example of a non-competitive market...

goodeats21

I am on American again this weekend. Lower price, better schedule, and better airplane. (CR9 vrs CR2).

I usually have some buffer in making 1K each year, but this one is starting off with a lot more flights on airlines other than United. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

I am sticky with United (United Club, 1MM, etc), but lack of upgradable space at booking and BIG increases in RDMs needed for flights is not keeping the 1K investment as compelling.

Kacee

Right now, UA is not getting any bookings from me, the fares are not competitive on the routes I'm flying. There's also a total lack of PZ, and I find UA has the worst F product of the US majors. Absolutely no reason for me to pay up. At this rate, looks like I'll drop to MM Gold this year. (Meanwhile, I've been consistently getting upgrades at T-100 on AA - will miss that when EXP expires 3/31. AS 75K is my only target status this year.)

gold23

Been monitoring a trip to Europe in March. Currently have J booked (ticketed in November), but don't love outbound routing. Pricing through last week was dancing up and down a bit- usually a $300-400 premium over our current fares, at which amount we'd obviously just retain our routing. But I've had general success over the last four or five years just poking around as you get closer- usually pricing on several routes either remains the same or opens up a bit as I've gotten closer to the date. These are for typically leisure routes (or at least leisrue final destinations).

Anyway, over the past three days everything on UA has doubled. Not just increased. Literally an 85-125% increase on everything. Similar routings through the native airlines LX, LH, AC, etc. have maintained their same pricing. LX actually is less than 50% of the price of an exact routing- one where UA metal is the primary carrier over the Atlantic. Since our booking is through UA I can't change it (I don't really want that much credit on UA, and if anything happens I'd prefer not to have that much credit on LX). But it's simply insane.

Kacee

UA and LX fares are identical due to the JV. If you're seeing different pricing on UA vs. LX flights, it's inventory, not fares. Also, there's no reason you can't book LX flights on a UA ticket, under either native or codeshare flight number, though again, pricing will depend on available inventory.

jsloan

OP mentioned a case where it's UA metal with an LX code. I can't imagine UA would be willing to sell that ticket.

Kacee

It's a little fuzzy, but I missed that interpretation, and agree if that's indeed the scenario.

IME, one of the problems with getting decent priced TATLs right now is that the European carriers are being very very stingy on intra-Europe P inventory.

gold23

Ok....So it appears the connection in EU is different. UA metal is same, but LX allows me to book a different LX flight from ZRH-FLR than UA does. LX is more convenient and a better connection, and almost $2500 cheaper. UA pricing is double- with a connection that is four hours longer. UA also doesn't allow me to book LX flight ex-EWR, though that's understandable as they have a competing direct a few hours earlier.

Am I correct in that LX is simply not opening the inventory on the earlier flight up to UA? Not sure why that doubles the price, but it's wild.

jsloan

Short answer: No, with a but. Long answer: yes, with an and.

Inventory management is really complicated. You're going to run into three different things: (a) married inventory, (b) codeshare inventory; and (c) faring. For married inventory, UA and LX can (and do) publish EWR-ZRH-FLR inventory that is independent of EWR-ZRH and ZRH-FLR. For codeshare inventory -- UA may codeshare some LX flights and not others. United.com preferentially returns codeshare flights. Codeshare flights have their own inventory, which may be higher or lower than the native flight inventory. Therefore, the inventory you see for UA8123 differs from LX123 even if they are the same actual flight. (And then that gets swallowed into the married inventory discussion). And for faring -- in most cases, your fare is much less expensive if it applies for the entire trip to the next stopover point. So, if UA and LX have decided that EWR-ZRH-FLR should have D inventory on one set of flights, but P inventory on another, then the price can be twice as high.

Howard

Sometimes I don't know how UA stays in business with their high prices. I'm looking at BOS-SAN in First/Business in a few weeks. Here's what I'm seeing:

• AS - nonstop - I class - $619
• DL - nonstop - I class - $729
• B6 - nonstop - I class - $944
• UA - 1 stop (various connection cities) - C class - $1859

How in the world do they stay competitive with these prices? UA, with a connection, is charging almost 3x the price of AS nonstop!

I would like to fly on UA and maintain at least Platinum status, but I can't justify 3x the price. It's crazy!

jsloan

They don't stay competitive with those prices. They are clearly willing to let AS, DL, and B6 battle it out for the passengers on that route. They'll sell you a seat if you want it, but they'd rather not. They think they can get more money elsewhere in the network.

nomad420

Preaching to the choir here. Didn't make 1K and dropped to MM Gold already. No way will I be back to 1K this year either. AS miles are already staking up and even back to looking at AA myself. Unfortunately UA still has the most flights into and out of my usual destinations (plus being out of SFO). To be clear there are alternatives to UA but often with unattractive times or with lengthy connections. When I want F I have been buying F and at a far better price and better hard product that UA.

mfirst

as mentioned - it is hard to be "loyal" (as a 1k for the past few years) when most of my travel is in these very competitive markets in which, despite opting for UA - and often paying a few $ more and sometimes less direct flights - I am still sticking with them.....

I am not implying that I am "willing" to pay more - and I have reasons for picking UA over LUV (for example)......reaching any level of status when I only get 100 PQP or so at a time is rough

Repooc17

I only fly UA if its fares are the cheapest on the most direct option, and same approach with any other carriers.

Loyalty has become a marketing slogan. The truth is you don't owe anything to airlines, and airlines don't owe anything to you...everything's purely transactional between you and airlines.

Here is an example of my approach: I flew AS on 4 cross country roundtrips the last four weeks, and I already re-qualified for its 1st tier level. (currently on the 3rd tier level). I spent around $500 total for those 8 flights, and accumulated over 20K flight miles in the process and 46.5K award miles.

Keep paying those high fares and upgrade to get status on UA. UA will be happy to keep raising fares. Enjoy the ride...that is, UA taking you for a ride