Jun 8, 2015, 5:51 am
Last edit by: UA1K_no_more
Thanks to member mre5765 for starting and maintaining this wikipost in the older thread.
General
LH has more wifi in its long haul fleet than UA.
LH Y vs UA Y
LH has free booze. And better booze than UA.
UA has E+. LH has true premium economy (separate booking class at a premium)
LH J vs UA J
All LH J seats have now been upgraded. However the window seats on 747-8i and all middle pairs of seats are arranged so that the feet of adjacent pax converge toward each other. Both UA J seats have a barrier that prevents kneeing, and the foot rests are well separated to prevent playing footsie.
Some people assert service and food in LH J is better, some say UA J is better, and others say there is no difference or that it varies flight to flight. LH J serves food on trays, but there are linens on the tray table and on the tray itself.
The trend at LH is that as it invests more in hard premium product, the soft aspects slip, because the hard product is an inflexible cost whereas the soft aspects are highly flexible.
The booze on LH J is better than UA J.
The IFE selections on UA are better than LH.
The amenity kit on UA J beats the LH J amenity kit.
LH F vs UA F
All LH planes with F now have the new F seat (748, 388, 346, 333). Ground services on LH F are better: the first class lounge, first class terminal (UA does not have one), and the tarmac limo service to your plane (UA only as this for GS and GF pax who have tight connections).
Standards in the FCT/FCL are slipping. A year or two ago one could expect limitless, whole macadamias and high end chocolates. Gone.
The new LH F seat is superior to the new UA F seat. However, the F cabin in the 747-8i is much more cramped than any GF cabin. Indeed, the 747-8i F cabin is more cramped than the upper deck of the 747-8i J cabin.
Another plus for LH is often the F cabins are sparsely filled, whereas, due to UA's employee contracts, unsold seats will invariably go to non rev employees.
The service and food on LH F is vastly superior to UA F. However standards are slipping. A year or two ago, an F pax was offered as many of the different appetizers as he wanted, and a second round of caviar. These offers are gone.
The booze on LH F is vastly superior to UA F.
The IFE selections on UA are better than LH.
The amenity kit on UA F beats the LH F amenity kit.
Overall, FT consensus in the UA and M&M forums is LH F is a better choice regardless of new F, old F, or gauge.
Overall
LH F > GF > BF > LH J > LH Y+ > UA E+ > LH Y > UA E-
Earlier threads
LH vs UA, which is better?
Best flight choice UA/LH TATL in business
General
LH has more wifi in its long haul fleet than UA.
LH Y vs UA Y
LH has free booze. And better booze than UA.
UA has E+. LH has true premium economy (separate booking class at a premium)
LH J vs UA J
All LH J seats have now been upgraded. However the window seats on 747-8i and all middle pairs of seats are arranged so that the feet of adjacent pax converge toward each other. Both UA J seats have a barrier that prevents kneeing, and the foot rests are well separated to prevent playing footsie.
Some people assert service and food in LH J is better, some say UA J is better, and others say there is no difference or that it varies flight to flight. LH J serves food on trays, but there are linens on the tray table and on the tray itself.
The trend at LH is that as it invests more in hard premium product, the soft aspects slip, because the hard product is an inflexible cost whereas the soft aspects are highly flexible.
The booze on LH J is better than UA J.
The IFE selections on UA are better than LH.
The amenity kit on UA J beats the LH J amenity kit.
LH F vs UA F
All LH planes with F now have the new F seat (748, 388, 346, 333). Ground services on LH F are better: the first class lounge, first class terminal (UA does not have one), and the tarmac limo service to your plane (UA only as this for GS and GF pax who have tight connections).
Standards in the FCT/FCL are slipping. A year or two ago one could expect limitless, whole macadamias and high end chocolates. Gone.
The new LH F seat is superior to the new UA F seat. However, the F cabin in the 747-8i is much more cramped than any GF cabin. Indeed, the 747-8i F cabin is more cramped than the upper deck of the 747-8i J cabin.
Another plus for LH is often the F cabins are sparsely filled, whereas, due to UA's employee contracts, unsold seats will invariably go to non rev employees.
The service and food on LH F is vastly superior to UA F. However standards are slipping. A year or two ago, an F pax was offered as many of the different appetizers as he wanted, and a second round of caviar. These offers are gone.
The booze on LH F is vastly superior to UA F.
The IFE selections on UA are better than LH.
The amenity kit on UA F beats the LH F amenity kit.
Overall, FT consensus in the UA and M&M forums is LH F is a better choice regardless of new F, old F, or gauge.
Overall
LH F > GF > BF > LH J > LH Y+ > UA E+ > LH Y > UA E-
Earlier threads
LH vs UA, which is better?
Best flight choice UA/LH TATL in business
Discussion of Flying Lufthansa vs. United [2015 onward]
May 21, 2015, 12:08 pm
#31
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat, Copa Pres. Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG LT Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 769
If it's possible to verify that the LH flight will be the new J seat, then I'd probably go with that - though that's primarily driven by my priorities on a TATL flight, which is as much sleep as possible!
The GF seat is bigger and more comfortable, but the slightly longer flight into FRA vs. BRU adds a bit of time, and for me the LH seat would be "good enough" to crash. I don't know schedules, but I'd probably have a bias in favor of whichever has a later departure, all else being equal.
If you can't guarantee new J on LH, then I'd probably go GF, even if only as an insurance policy to get that fully flat seat.
TK wide-body experience is great, as others have said. But their intra-Europe narrow body also tends to be much better than most others. Some just have the middle seat blocked, but several times I've had a Virgin America First -style seat, which is obviously a big upgrade. Based on seatguru, the 739 looks like it has that style seat FWIW.
The GF seat is bigger and more comfortable, but the slightly longer flight into FRA vs. BRU adds a bit of time, and for me the LH seat would be "good enough" to crash. I don't know schedules, but I'd probably have a bias in favor of whichever has a later departure, all else being equal.
If you can't guarantee new J on LH, then I'd probably go GF, even if only as an insurance policy to get that fully flat seat.
TK wide-body experience is great, as others have said. But their intra-Europe narrow body also tends to be much better than most others. Some just have the middle seat blocked, but several times I've had a Virgin America First -style seat, which is obviously a big upgrade. Based on seatguru, the 739 looks like it has that style seat FWIW.
Last edited by milesmuncher; Jun 26, 2015 at 4:29 pm Reason: typo
May 21, 2015, 12:10 pm
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,762
its true that its way better than United, but its a lounge. For me that means its a nice place to wait out a layover, but I would never schedule a longer than necessary/prudently long layover to "get more lounge time"
Last edited by goalie; May 21, 2015 at 12:41 pm Reason: please remember to properly quote by quoting the member's name when quoting their post
May 21, 2015, 12:14 pm
#33
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Osaka
Programs: United Mileage Plus Premier Executive
Posts: 581
Agree with most points here - although I would add that the GF seat is better and bigger than BF - it's noticeable. The JFK-FRA I am almost 100% certain is the new A380 lie flat - a good seat.
Here's the thing for me since you are travelling as a couple. On the LH flight you will much closer together as the GF pods are quite a bit apart, and even if you sit together in the GF centers the divider is quite high - much more intimate on the LH flight. Food will also be better on LH. I also agree with above - fly out in J on LH and try to fly back on GF so you can use the LH first class lounge - although I find the Senator lounges quite nice as well... Also - the TK widebody will be a better flight - much better - even though it's only three hours. Narrow-body business class in Europe isn't worth it...
Here's the thing for me since you are travelling as a couple. On the LH flight you will much closer together as the GF pods are quite a bit apart, and even if you sit together in the GF centers the divider is quite high - much more intimate on the LH flight. Food will also be better on LH. I also agree with above - fly out in J on LH and try to fly back on GF so you can use the LH first class lounge - although I find the Senator lounges quite nice as well... Also - the TK widebody will be a better flight - much better - even though it's only three hours. Narrow-body business class in Europe isn't worth it...
May 21, 2015, 12:25 pm
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 10,159
The reciprocal is that HON members receive access to United Global First lounges when flying in Business Class on LH or UA.
NewbieRunner is an amazing source of knowledge about LH, but apparently didn't catch the added perk to Global Services. It's a fast moving world....
Last edited by goodeats21; May 21, 2015 at 12:28 pm Reason: added reciprocal
May 21, 2015, 3:45 pm
#35
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,514
It is a fairly recent change (Jan 2015?), but United Global Services members departing either FRA or MUC in GlobalFirst can access LH FCL. It does not apply to any other passenger...they still get SEN lounge access.
The reciprocal is that HON members receive access to United Global First lounges when flying in Business Class on LH or UA.
No worries. These things get so complicated and change so often, it is almost like a flowchart is needed to cover every set of circumstances.
NewbieRunner is an amazing source of knowledge about LH, but apparently didn't catch the added perk to Global Services. It's a fast moving world....
The reciprocal is that HON members receive access to United Global First lounges when flying in Business Class on LH or UA.
No worries. These things get so complicated and change so often, it is almost like a flowchart is needed to cover every set of circumstances.
NewbieRunner is an amazing source of knowledge about LH, but apparently didn't catch the added perk to Global Services. It's a fast moving world....
It took them a long time to publish the fact that Global Services members as well as those arriving on United GF and BF have access to the Welcome Lounge in FRA.
May 21, 2015, 6:05 pm
#36
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EWR, PHL
Programs: UA1k 3MM, AA Plt, peasant on everybody else, elite something or other at a bunch of hotels.
Posts: 4,637
OP mentioned returning on TK A340; this might be OK on a day flight, but I would avoid it on the outbound red-eye.
May 22, 2015, 1:57 am
#37
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,514
If you can't guarantee new J on LH, then I'd probably go GF, even if only as an insurance policy to get that fully flat seat.
All A343, A388 and B748 currently in operation have new Business seats. Only one A333 has old Business seats and is regularly flying from FRA to Almaty, Astana and Caracas. You still have some chance of getting old Business seats on A346 and B747.
Jun 8, 2015, 1:18 am
#38
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: UA Plat, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 677
My Comparison of UA and LH
I just had my first experience on LH and I was surprised by the difference as compared to UA. I am a UA Plat, therefore a Star Alliance Gold. This was a 2 segment trip AMS-FRA-SIN.
At check-in, there was no priority line (as far as I could tell), but I was acknowledged as a *Gold and received a priority tag for my checked bag, which was free. My UA experience would have been a bit better since I would have had a priority line.
I was able to access a contract lounge in AMS and the Senator lounge in FRA. This was nice, and I believe better than I would have received from status on UA, but I could be wrong on that front as I also hold a UA Club card and therefore get UA lounge access regardless.
At boarding, there was only one call for priority boarding and they included all *Gold passengers. That was nice. On both segments less than 10% of the passengers appeared to have *Gold status, which was shocking compared to UA. The average LH passenger must not fly all that much, I guess. Overall, better (more exclusive) priority boarding than I receive on UA as a Plat. Then again boarding order really isn't all that important to me in most cases.
The AMS-FRA segment was scheduled as 1 hour 10 minutes, so maybe 45 minutes total in the air. In that span of time, I received a sandwich, a beer, and an offer for a beverage refill. All complimentary. Advantage LH, and it's not even close. In fact I panicked a bit when they brought the food around since I thought the segment must be longer and I had somehow booked a tight connection in FRA as a result.
The longer FRA-Sin segment was comparable to a long UA segment experience. The main difference was that I had to pay for decent seat whereas I would have received E+ for free on UA. In fact, you have to pay for any advance seat assignment on LH, so advantage to UA on that front.
Overall, it was a good experience and I wouldn't hesitate to book LH again over UA. The main negative was the charge for seat assignments, but this time at least I should get that reimbursed by my CC company.
On a side note, which lounge is better in FRA? Senator or Business?
At check-in, there was no priority line (as far as I could tell), but I was acknowledged as a *Gold and received a priority tag for my checked bag, which was free. My UA experience would have been a bit better since I would have had a priority line.
I was able to access a contract lounge in AMS and the Senator lounge in FRA. This was nice, and I believe better than I would have received from status on UA, but I could be wrong on that front as I also hold a UA Club card and therefore get UA lounge access regardless.
At boarding, there was only one call for priority boarding and they included all *Gold passengers. That was nice. On both segments less than 10% of the passengers appeared to have *Gold status, which was shocking compared to UA. The average LH passenger must not fly all that much, I guess. Overall, better (more exclusive) priority boarding than I receive on UA as a Plat. Then again boarding order really isn't all that important to me in most cases.
The AMS-FRA segment was scheduled as 1 hour 10 minutes, so maybe 45 minutes total in the air. In that span of time, I received a sandwich, a beer, and an offer for a beverage refill. All complimentary. Advantage LH, and it's not even close. In fact I panicked a bit when they brought the food around since I thought the segment must be longer and I had somehow booked a tight connection in FRA as a result.
The longer FRA-Sin segment was comparable to a long UA segment experience. The main difference was that I had to pay for decent seat whereas I would have received E+ for free on UA. In fact, you have to pay for any advance seat assignment on LH, so advantage to UA on that front.
Overall, it was a good experience and I wouldn't hesitate to book LH again over UA. The main negative was the charge for seat assignments, but this time at least I should get that reimbursed by my CC company.
On a side note, which lounge is better in FRA? Senator or Business?
Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Jun 8, 2015 at 5:53 am Reason: already an existing thread on this topic
Jun 8, 2015, 1:24 am
#39
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC / TYO / Up in the Air
Programs: UA GS 1.7MM, AA 2.1MM, EK, BA, SQ, CX, Marriot LT, Accor P
Posts: 6,317
Jun 8, 2015, 1:40 am
#40
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: UA Plat, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 677
Thanks. I only went to the Senator lounge, and assumed that it must be the better of the two. Much, much nicer than any UC I have ever visited, although still not as nice as a Centurion lounge, IMHO.
I have a 4 hour layover in FRA on my way back and will make sure to visit the Senator lounge again. The self-serve alcohol is nice, although my layover is early morning, so I may not partake.
I have a 4 hour layover in FRA on my way back and will make sure to visit the Senator lounge again. The self-serve alcohol is nice, although my layover is early morning, so I may not partake.
Jun 8, 2015, 1:46 am
#41
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coastal Croatia
Programs: BAEC Gold, M&M Senator
Posts: 2,181
Business class is for paid biz plus LH's lowest elite tier (Frequent Traveler). The lounge is fine in terms of seating but the food offerings are noticeably poorer. Usually the hot option is some kind of hot dog (wurst). The Senator lounge is for LH Senators, Star Gold and first class passengers from other Star Alliance airlines. Again, better food--some kind of hot main dish (curry, pasta, casserole), nicer desserts (and maybe better wines & alcohol; not really too sure on that last one). Their first class lounges have the best food & drink but they are only for those flying first on LH or for those with LH Honors status (sort of the equivalent of GS on UA--600,000 miles in two years). This includes a private transfer to the plane if parked on the tarmac, etc.
Last edited by eefor jfp; Jun 8, 2015 at 2:29 am Reason: clarity & punctuation
Jun 8, 2015, 3:35 am
#42
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Avis First, Hertz PC
Posts: 575
LH still flies some angled biz seats, something to note.
FRA has a special check in terminal for F and hon circle. Nothing really to compare that to at UA.
I find the Y seats on LH to be generally less comfortable than the Y seats on pmUA aircraft. The pmCO seats are just as hard as the LH seats.
This is subjective, but there don't seem to be as many rules/details when making changes on LH. UA is a bit over the top with ticketing dogma. Of course UA has much better features like the mobile app, myriad of upgrade options and liberal SDC, necessitating such rules. Upgrading on LH seems more of a black box, still waiting to try one of the new electronic GPUs.
FRA has a special check in terminal for F and hon circle. Nothing really to compare that to at UA.
I find the Y seats on LH to be generally less comfortable than the Y seats on pmUA aircraft. The pmCO seats are just as hard as the LH seats.
This is subjective, but there don't seem to be as many rules/details when making changes on LH. UA is a bit over the top with ticketing dogma. Of course UA has much better features like the mobile app, myriad of upgrade options and liberal SDC, necessitating such rules. Upgrading on LH seems more of a black box, still waiting to try one of the new electronic GPUs.
Jun 8, 2015, 4:43 am
#43
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: DC|NYC
Programs: UA GS, DL Plat, Marriott Bonvoy LIfetime Titanium/SPG refugee, Hertz Prez, Amtrak Select
Posts: 3,201
FYI: *A gold are invited to check in the first class lines. They just aren't very showy about it so it's easy to miss. But the signage will show a *A gold logo along with first class.
As for Business vs Senator lounges, the Senator lounges have proper champagne. The last Business lounge I was in offered a sparkling wine from South Africa.
I'm a big fan of LH (although typically in FC so there's no comparison) but my biggest gripe is their pathetic IFE. Very little selection and the screens, even in FC, are circa 1999.
As for Business vs Senator lounges, the Senator lounges have proper champagne. The last Business lounge I was in offered a sparkling wine from South Africa.
I'm a big fan of LH (although typically in FC so there's no comparison) but my biggest gripe is their pathetic IFE. Very little selection and the screens, even in FC, are circa 1999.
Jun 8, 2015, 9:57 am
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London & Sonoma CA
Programs: UA 1K, MM *G for life, BAEC Gold
Posts: 10,225
Not in either LHR or DUS in early May, when both offered a choice of Sekt or Prosecco only. No Champagne. Which should not take away from the LHR lounge which I find to be excellent.
Jun 8, 2015, 10:58 am
#45
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
I just had my first experience on LH and I was surprised by the difference as compared to UA. I am a UA Plat, therefore a Star Alliance Gold. This was a 2 segment trip AMS-FRA-SIN.
At check-in, there was no priority line (as far as I could tell), but I was acknowledged as a *Gold and received a priority tag for my checked bag, which was free. My UA experience would have been a bit better since I would have had a priority line.
I was able to access a contract lounge in AMS and the Senator lounge in FRA. This was nice, and I believe better than I would have received from status on UA, but I could be wrong on that front as I also hold a UA Club card and therefore get UA lounge access regardless.
At boarding, there was only one call for priority boarding and they included all *Gold passengers. That was nice. On both segments less than 10% of the passengers appeared to have *Gold status, which was shocking compared to UA. The average LH passenger must not fly all that much, I guess. Overall, better (more exclusive) priority boarding than I receive on UA as a Plat. Then again boarding order really isn't all that important to me in most cases.
The AMS-FRA segment was scheduled as 1 hour 10 minutes, so maybe 45 minutes total in the air. In that span of time, I received a sandwich, a beer, and an offer for a beverage refill. All complimentary. Advantage LH, and it's not even close. In fact I panicked a bit when they brought the food around since I thought the segment must be longer and I had somehow booked a tight connection in FRA as a result.
The longer FRA-Sin segment was comparable to a long UA segment experience. The main difference was that I had to pay for decent seat whereas I would have received E+ for free on UA. In fact, you have to pay for any advance seat assignment on LH, so advantage to UA on that front.
Overall, it was a good experience and I wouldn't hesitate to book LH again over UA. The main negative was the charge for seat assignments, but this time at least I should get that reimbursed by my CC company.
On a side note, which lounge is better in FRA? Senator or Business?
At check-in, there was no priority line (as far as I could tell), but I was acknowledged as a *Gold and received a priority tag for my checked bag, which was free. My UA experience would have been a bit better since I would have had a priority line.
I was able to access a contract lounge in AMS and the Senator lounge in FRA. This was nice, and I believe better than I would have received from status on UA, but I could be wrong on that front as I also hold a UA Club card and therefore get UA lounge access regardless.
At boarding, there was only one call for priority boarding and they included all *Gold passengers. That was nice. On both segments less than 10% of the passengers appeared to have *Gold status, which was shocking compared to UA. The average LH passenger must not fly all that much, I guess. Overall, better (more exclusive) priority boarding than I receive on UA as a Plat. Then again boarding order really isn't all that important to me in most cases.
The AMS-FRA segment was scheduled as 1 hour 10 minutes, so maybe 45 minutes total in the air. In that span of time, I received a sandwich, a beer, and an offer for a beverage refill. All complimentary. Advantage LH, and it's not even close. In fact I panicked a bit when they brought the food around since I thought the segment must be longer and I had somehow booked a tight connection in FRA as a result.
The longer FRA-Sin segment was comparable to a long UA segment experience. The main difference was that I had to pay for decent seat whereas I would have received E+ for free on UA. In fact, you have to pay for any advance seat assignment on LH, so advantage to UA on that front.
Overall, it was a good experience and I wouldn't hesitate to book LH again over UA. The main negative was the charge for seat assignments, but this time at least I should get that reimbursed by my CC company.
On a side note, which lounge is better in FRA? Senator or Business?
So in this case, did you really 'book LH over UA'?
