Ber2dca

You may be "encouraged" to take that option anyway when UA predictably cancel your flight out of EWR.

Indelaware

I disagree here. Market demand has encouraged the airlines to offer abundant frequency without regards to efficiency. In the WAS-NYC-BOS market we should largely have full mainline (and perhaps even wide-body) services.

While airlines should be responsive to customer demand, certain markets ought be regulated in the interests of both fuel conservation and air space decongestant -- both of which are good for airline and passenger.

+1 And while we are at it, I'd be favor of expanding the code-share to put UA numbers on all 2V single-train services connecting to flights at both EWR and BWI. Even if the added traffic isn't great, I can't see how this wouldn't be a win-win-win for UA, 2V, and passengers. The only ones likely to be hurt would be AA, DL, US, & WN.

haddon90

wide-body?

Ber2dca

Do people take the train network into consideration when they propose more reliance on Amtrak on this corridor? They would have to stock up their offerings and you can already easily be delayed by 1+ hour using Amtrak on this route as well. There seems to be a lot more space in the sky than on a railroad.

usmsbow

Not if you book far in advance, then it is $50. Even last minute, it will be $82 at off-hours. But yes, if you don't buy it way in advance and travel at a "regular" time, it will cost over $100 one-way.

M60_to_LGA

Exactly. When I take the train between NY-DC I generally book the 5:30am departure going down, and it's about $50. The return - which I generally take at around 6pm - is a bit more, but not terribly so. And I usually don't buy the tickets more than a couple of weeks in advance.

Indelaware

Yes there are rail delays, but one can certainly observe the same with airlines.

Yes tracks ought, IMO, be upgraded & expanded, but to suggest that the skies in the WAS-NYC-BOS corridor are anything but overcrowded ignores reality. Just because we aren't seeing mid-air collisions doesn't mean that ATCers and aviators aren't worried about it happening given all the aluminum birds in the air.

sbm12

Are you saying that there are a sufficient number of passengers to support high frequencies of mainline or wide-body service paying a fare which is sufficiently high-yielding? Or that the hourly options should be scrapped in favor of 5x daily on 767s?

Because neither makes much sense here in the real world.

I've had multiple days where I got in a cab headed to LaGuardia and didn't know whether I'd be on US or DL until we were getting on the Grand Central and I could figure out if I'd make the top or bottom of the hour flight. My record was 25 minutes from leaving my office in mid-town to being on board with the door closing behind me. If they didn't offer hourly service they'd lose a lot of similar business to the carrier who did, even if the hourly operations are on smaller planes.

LASUA1K

This only happens in the US. Other countries don't have this love affair with rj's. On LGA-DCA Delta (Shuttle America) and US offer hourly service, US on mainline. A few of those flights can be consolidated.

Either way, with security and such these days, taking the train is the best way on this route.

Indelaware

Yes, I am suggesting that flight frequency ought be reduced.

Your suggestion that "If they didn't offer hourly service they'd lose a lot of similar business to the carrier who did" misses the point. Under proper regulation, no airline would have hourly service. There is no reason one needs multiple flights within any given 90 minute period. A fair mechanism for airlines to bid on the rights to be the one to fly in a given period could be devised.

Likewise those rights might be rotated over some period of time. We could start, for example, like this:

6:00a - Airline 1
7:30a - Airline 2
9:00a - Airline 3
10:30a-Airline 1
12:00n-Airline 2
1:30p -Airline 3
3:00p -Airline 1
4:30p -Airline 2
6:00p -Airline 3
7:30p -Airline 1
9:00p - Airline 2
10:30p-Airline 3

Then every period of time (2 weeks, month, quarter) have the airlines rotate. Period 2 would then be

6:00a - Airline 3
7:30a - Airline 1
9:00a - Airline 2
10:30a-Airline 3
12:00n-Airline 1
1:30p -Airline 2
3:00p -Airline 3
4:30p -Airline 1
6:00p -Airline 2
7:30p -Airline 3
9:00p - Airline 1
10:30p-Airline 2

Period 3:
6:00a - Airline 2
7:30a - Airline 3
9:00a - Airline 1
10:30a-Airline 2
12:00n-Airline 3
1:30p -Airline 1
3:00p -Airline 2
4:30p -Airline 3
6:00p -Airline 1
7:30p -Airline 2
9:00p - Airline 3
10:30p-Airline 1

With service still offered every 90 minutes, the airlines would still need to compete for passengers. A person considering the 1:30pm flight might take the 12:00n flight or the 3:00pm if airlines operating those flights provided lower fares or if s/he wanted to earn FF points on the other airline.

I reject the notion that any greater frequency is needed. Those whose appointment books require more frequency might, IMO, be better served to find ways not to stretch oneself so thin of time.

mduell

In the US it seems to be largely the result of labor dynamics rather than a preference for small planes specifically.

I think you completely misunderstand the business travel market with your 1 flight every 90 minutes rule.

NYC-WAS isn't even very busy between any particular pair of airports. There are airport pairs elsewhere in the world with more daily frequency than all the NYC-WAS airports combined.

sannmann

In going from DC to NYC for leisure, bus service is good enough: $30 from Rosslyn to Midtown on Vamoose each way. If business, take the train. If flying international, fly out of IAD instead and connect at FRA or MUC.

berto714

Why is this the case? The airlines are competing directly with Amtrak more than other airlines. Amtrak runs at least twice an hour (one Acela, one regional). If airlines cut back to one flight every 90 minutes, as you suggest, I'm sure they'd lose even more of their market share.

Alpha Golf

For those of us who live in DC, the problem is that when they have wx in NY and have to cxl flights, the regionals always cancel first. So we're left stranded.

I won't connect in Newark for this reason.

berto714

I agree with this - I actually take Vamoose pretty often, especially because the Rosslyn dropoff is pretty convenient for me. Or, if I'm traveling last-minute, I'll transfer 4,000 Chase UR points to Amtrak for a one-way ticket, which can often run $160+ on Friday afternoons.