Sykes

Absolutely true, but how do you discern between a policy that is made up by the FA on the spot and a policy that actually airline procedure? While I agree that this was probably just a control-freak FA in the OP's scenario, it is entirely plausible that this UX carrier could have a policy that requires shades to be up when the aircraft is on the ground.

raehl311

There's a difference between being obligated to leave the plane when an airline rep asks you to leave and being obligated to lower the window shade when an airline representative asks you to do so.

The first is like a restaurant employee asking you to leave the restaurant, the second is like the restaurant employee asking you to not leave your bag in the aisle.

Of course, if you don't listen to the rep's request on the latter portion, they may invoke the earlier portion.

Regardless, anyone has the right to ask you to leave their property, and you're obligated to comply. An airline rep can ask you to leave the plane for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER and you're obligated to do so. You may have some recourse after the fact, but if they say get off the plane, then you have to get off the plane.

If they ask you to raise the window shade (and you're not in an exit row where there are legit safety reasons for the shade to be open on takeoff and landing) and you refuse, you're not going to run into trouble with the law.

Unless they then decide to ask you to leave the plane and you don't.


My general policy when encountering craziness on the part of employees (not limited to airlines) is to suggest the reasonable course of action to the employee, and if not accepted, raise it as a customer service issue after the fact (assuming it's not an error of safety or some such that really should be addressed on the spot.) In the case of the window shade, I'd suggest that there's no reason the state of the window shade in a non-exit row matters, and should that not be sufficient, email in on arrival to suggest retraining.

Well, they can legally instruct you to do anything... there is just unlikely to be any legal consequence for failing to follow such instructions.

bocastephen

Well, that depends on the circumstances. If we're on the ground and in an easy position to be booted, assume an instruction should be followed (unless it's something that would cause personal harm or embarrassment). When in the air, use your discretion - if a FA orders you to stop taking photos of your meal while you're over the middle of the pacific, are you going to comply or argue? I would argue. If the FA orders you to close the window shade when you want to look out at the scenery are you going to comply or argue?

In these examples, I would argue and take the position upon arrival that if an incident is filed and the police are waiting for me, I am pretty sure they won't take too kindly (to the FA) to the fact they were called about an inflight disruption that turned out to be a passenger taking photos of their dinner.

Now if the FA ordered you to fasten your seatbelt, would you ignore that instruction? No. Return to your seat - ignore? No.

raehl311

If I was arriving in the US, maybe. Arriving in a foreign country? Not so much.

Generally I just don't think it's worth a battle with the FA. Let the corporation know and train. If I have enough experiences where the corporation fails to do that, I'll switch corporations. (And thus far, I'd say my service on UA has been pretty good overall - I really don't run into these types of issues at all.)

FlightNurse

Um it was one photo and he never "talked back to the FA."

[QUOTE=DavidRS4;20510681]I was flying on an E-170 in the 2nd row of first class. I closed my window shade when I first came on board and was reading while waiting for everyone else to board. A few people board and the FA tells me "The window shade needs to be fully up". I responded "Yes, I am aware it needs to be up for takeoff and will raise it as soon as the door is closed" (At this point we were about 10 min out from closing the door.) I was then told that it has to be up anytime the plane is on the ground. I immediately complied with the request and then asked if that was a new policy as my impression from all of my previous flights was that it had to be up once the door was closed. The FA then said no it always has to be up on the ground.

Is this something new? QUOTE]

What I find interesting is, people would rather come on FT and write this, knowing well and good that the FA blew BS up his but. Why didn't you write the airline and ask them if this way BS, get the FA's name and let the airlines deal with it. Behavior like this will never change unless people speak up and let the airline know what is being said to paying PAX's.

gobluetwo

He's referring to the blogger who took a photo of his seat or something and was told by the FA to cease and desist (basically).
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/check...ing-photo.html

weero

They can have you booted for no reason whatsoever. The consequence is that the airline then becomes liable for all the subsequent expenses and business opportunities you loose out on.

So you most certainly can ask about the rule or safety issue involved.
In whay way does that instruction have to delivered?

Years ago, I got into a bad tiff with an SQ FA while still on the ground in Europe. She escalated to the purser then the FO who then demanded that I leave the plane. Me being inexperienced and feeling in the right demanded that instruction in written and handed him pen and paper. He refused to write it down (as he smelled my intentions) and still insisted on me leaving. I told him to get the police as I wanted neutral witnesses.
The captain finally let me stay.

n9536j

With one major limitation, the request can not be based on any of the recognized discrimination classes.

All blacks to the back of the plane would be illegal.

GoAmtrak

The problem is that this policy is indeed specific to Shuttle America, unique amongst UA or its contractors. It's articulated in the safety demo recording (and IMO should not be considered enforceable till then).

Power-tripping FAs aside, I think a policy of shades up during the critical phases of taxi, takeoff, and landing is integral to good situational awareness. I wouldn't mind seeing it consistent across UA, or even industrywide as an FAR.

Just don't make us raise the shades till the cabin door closes. @:-)