Eadward

so... on 3/20 I'm at YYZ trying to check into AC 872 to FRA and then AC 9071 to AMS. AC 9071 is really codeshared LH 988, LH metal -- and it turns out LH is on strike at FRA.

so... the AC exec first check in lady gives my full J class ticket to FRA but says the onward flight is cancelled and they don't have a way to get me to AMS, and perhaps I could look into taking a train.

so... I'm like "I need to get to AMS, get me another route to AMS". And she's like "I'm sorry but I can't do that as you booked this through United [I did - to get United miles] you need to go to United".

so... I go to United check in and they tell me they can't touch the ticket, only AC can. I do a bit of a DYKWIA and say, but I'm GS, can't you help me, and the United check in manager lady says that's great you can call the GS hotline then. She also says this is not an IRROPS since its a codeshared carrier's labor dispute, and they have no responsibility for that. They assume no responsibility and won't help and won't call anyone. By the way there were two check in people on duty and no other customers there.

so... I go back to AC and (after a very long wait in line) they continue to refuse to modify the ticket with another route. She calls several people and they all tell her they can't help me. I say I booked an AC ticket to AMS and they need to get me there. She says its not their problem, its LH and if I have a problem I should go talk to LH. (Like this would do anything, and there were hundreds of people in front of LH dealing with their own miseries.)

so... at this point, I say, ok, just book me a brand new ticket on another route to get me to AMS, which she does, through LHR then on BA to AMS. But this is a same day new full J at a higher price. I say I shouldn't have to pay that since its not my fault, they couldn't get me where I wanted to, and she says there is nothing she can do about it.

so... I go on my way and eventually get to AMS.

so... now I have questions...

Is the LH action an IRROPS?

Who should have fixed my original ticket to get a new route to AMS, UA or AC?

Is this how shoddy UA and AC treat a GS on a full J fare?

If you book something as codeshare does that give both carriers the right to refuse service and/or provide shoddy service?

How do I get refunded back to my original ticket cost?

Does this deserve compensation, and if so what from whom?

What say you FT?

mduell

You don't need to book a ticket through UA to get UA miles for it.

Yes - for LH operated flights.

LH is the one who can reaccomodate you for LH's IRROPS at FRA.

Yes.

The operating carrier is the only one who has agreed to provide service. The ticketing or codesharing carrier have not.

You don't - you chose to buy a new ticket instead of accepting to the complimentary rebooking by the responsible carrier.

Maybe from LH per LH policies if you stuck with the original ticket and followed IRROPS procedures, but since you decided to buy a new ticket instead, nothing.

DYKWIA

WineCountryUA

The responsible airline is LH -- the operating airline that fails to provide service.

Refund -- you made a voluntary change, no refund. Once you volunatary rebook, you let LH off the hook.

Did you ever contact the GS phone agent? The local agent was correct that unless AC released the ticket or you cancelled, they could not do anything. The GS agent may have been able to call AC and get them to release the ticket.

Certainty no comp from UA.

ksw

Others already replied to your questions, but let me comment on one thing.

I'm not sure why you didn't consider taking a train from FRA to AMS.
The railway network in that region of Europe is not bad. FRA is especially
convenient for railway connections -- it has long-distance railway station
(Fernbahnhof) directly connected to the airport terminal.

There are a few trains which directly connect FRA Fernbahnhof to Amsterdam
Central station in about 3 hours 40 minutes.

You can check train schedules (and prices) at http://bahn.com/
(which is *very* useful even for rail trips outside Germany)

I think you could have negotiated Lufthansa to pay for the train ticket
as a substitute of the cancelled flight. I myself have no such experience, but
when LH flights were cancelled, I overheard a LH staff asking the affected
passengers if they would take a train to the destination. So I guess it's not
out of question (comments would be appreciated).
Even if you have to pay for the train ticket, it costs just around 100 EUR
-- much cheaper than buying a new flight ticket from YYZ to AMS
on the spot.

Eadward

I don't think i would have gotten up to a LH agent by the time any relevant flights were left given the chaos they had going on. I also didn't see them as being able to help. The customer in front of me was in a similar situation and said she spent 3 hours being bounced between AC and LH with neither agreeing to help her.

So what could LH have done for me? They were on strike in FRA and other locations. The LH FRA to AMS flights were not flying. KLM was sold out on that route and most others into AMS. Would LH have completely modified my ticket to the itinerary I ended up with (AC YYZ to LHR then BA to AMS) - I think that was about the only way I was getting to AMS that night.

Eadward

Thanks. By this point I didn't have a lot of time before my original AC flight to FRA was going to board and didn't think I had time to get in front of a LH agent. Might have been an option however.

tods27

I'm a bit confused. The OP states he was on a "full J" ticket, but is concerned about a refund? It would seem that the OP was actually on a restricted J ticket, otherwise it would be fully refundable and changeable, allowing for an easier reroute (although, not onto BA).

With that said, if your ticket is non-refundable, then the other posters are correct that you will have to get the refund minus any change fees (or with UA, credit towards a future flight that will require payment of change fee when you go to use it).

edited to add: Who exactly was on strike at LH? If it was the FAs or Pilots, that would not necessarily affect the ground personnel in FRA, so you would have been able to deal with the train question in FRA.

FlyWorld

1. What I've learned up-thread is that the ticketing carrier apparently has no responsibility whatsoever for the performance of the operating carrier. I would have thought that UA would be responsible for sorting out the mess since they sold the ticket to you. Guess that's not the case.

2. At FRA, a lot of things could have happened:

a. The strike could have ended by the time you got there or your flight could have been operating,
b. They could have put you on another carrier from FRA to AMS, or
c. They could have put you on the train

If I were you, I'd have made the same assumptions you made about UA being responsible for fixing it, but given what we've learned about that, it seems like the lesson for anyone in a similar situation is to go to FRA and let LH sort it out when you get there. Really sucks to be in that situation when you've got an important business meeting.

Knowing all this, in hindsight, I'd probably have called GS and asked them to get me to AMS w/o LH on UA metal, which they'd probably be more willing to consider. But, from what others have written, it sounds like UA has no obligation or responsibility for LH's failure to perform? So, any help they offer is discretionary?

Eadward

Ticket was full J. I know its refundable. However neither AC nor UA was willing to modify the ticket, with each saying it was the other's responsibilty. Why I don't know. Also my concern is that I believe I was essentially forced to buy a new ticket at higher price as same day ticket. While I believe I'm getting the old ticket refunded who is going to compensate me for needing to buy the new ticket at a higher price - since they wouldn't modify my existing ticket.

Thanks. This response is closest to what my assumption was here. But I guess you know what they say about assuming... I didn't want to go to FRA because the LH flight was cancelled and there were no other seats available seats FRA to AMS - except perhaps the train which I wasn't thinking was viable at the time. I didn't personally call GS but my assistant did while I was in line and she was not getting much progress there either. I had the rebooking done in person with the airport agent, and GS told her that what I ended up with was about my only option and as good as it was going to get.

FlyWorld

There were no other seats available FRA AMS on LH, on *A, or on any carrier? I'd think it wouldn't be that hard to get seat on another carrier, like KLM, though I wonder if the person who said "no other seats available" was checking all carriers or only checking LH/*A?

Definitely a screwed up situation and I am as surprised as you are to learn that UA has no responsibility for performance of parts of the ticket that they sold but are operated by other carriers.

I guess labor action is carved out the same way that insurance companies carve out acts of war, etc. Simply not part of the covered scope.

Eadward

I believe there were no seats like no seats. My assistant also checked with our corporate travel agency, and they said it was sold out. I know for sure KLM was sold out and LH was down, so the 2 majors on that route were out at least.

mduell

This strike wasn't some surprise walk-out, it was announced well in advance.

You could have called LH, or had an assistant call LH on your behalf. The LH staff at YYZ were probably busy rebooking customers booked on the LH flights from YYZ.

LH would have reaccommodated or refunded you pursuant to their policies and procedures.

It's the ver.di union - airport staff.

Any changes to the ticket are made through the ticketing carrier or agent.

On the day of flight, all IRROPS handling are through the operating carrier.

The marketing (codeshare) carrier is never responsible for IRROPS/rebooking/changes/etc.

You should have called United if you wanted to not proceed as ticketed and reticket. I don't know if UA offers a ticketing desk at YYZ.
You should have called Lufthansa if you wanted to proceed as ticketed and receive IRROPS handling.

Sykes

This is true. For the sake of EU Compensation, reaccomodation according to the contract of carriage, and most travel insurance polices, labor action is considered a force majeure event and is treated like a weather cancellation.

craz

As for any UA responsibility , they cant do anything if its under AC control.

I agree with a poster above who said the OP should have called the GS and let them hammer it out with AC. I might have looked into flying into BRU where its apx an hour train ride to AMS, depending on what that would have cost. Or flown any other *A Carrier to their hub and to AMS from there

Buts thats all split milk now, Unfortuantly OP since You on your own purchased the YYZ-LHR-AMS tkt no one but you carrys any additional cost. For sure the issuing Carrier cant be held accountable for what another carrier may do or have done to them.Its that other carrier that is Responsible to get you to your Final destination . But once you CXed that tkt you released LH from any Obligations they would have had

Yea it Stinks but them the rules. I understand that it seems you had to get to AMS and didnt have the time to navigate thru all the garbage.But by doing what you did you accomplished getting to AMS, but at teh same time let anyone who might have had the Obligation to do something Off the Hook

rankourabu

a) how does a GS not know that?
b) why would one book an AC ticket with LH segments thru United, that is just asking for trouble when the operating airline has to touch another airline's ticket
c) AC was right, the problem was LH's to handle in FRA
d) DYKWIA?