Jun 25, 2014, 1:23 pm
Last edit by: WIRunner
TSAPressSec, Ross, is the TSA's official rep on FlyerTalk. He has agreed to answer questions, though some answers will take time. You can also contact on him on Twitter: @TSAMedia_RossF.
Note these important posts by Ross:
and
Below are questions so far answered (or not) in this thread:
For a full list of all posts by TSAPressSec, view their profile here: TSAPressSec and select the Find All Posts By TSAPressSec
Note these important posts by Ross:
Unfortunately, I can't devote all my time to this site, as I still have other job requirements, etc. So please be patient with me...especially on my third day here. However, I will go back to our experts to answer these questions that have been posed above. I know the moderator is working on a better system to sort questions in the appropriate threads.
Many, many questions, and I am working to get answers. I have thick skin, and want to assist in answering them. I apologize for the delay, but I was out of the office on personal leave.
With that being said, please be patient. Some of the questions have to be researched, and I want to vet them with the appropriate personnel internally before I post them here.
With that being said, please be patient. Some of the questions have to be researched, and I want to vet them with the appropriate personnel internally before I post them here.
- Question: Answer:I was the lucky random beep at the WTMD in PreCheck tonight at Portland. Instead of the quick hand swab, I was sent to the MMW. Since nobody uses it, the MMW has to be fired up, calibrated then I was told not to remove my belt, wallet or shoes. Of course those two required me to be patted down. Checkpoint supe and all three TSOs said it's a new, nationwide policy that started a few days ago. So, why the change? It added an extra two minutes tonight, but I was the only one in PreCheck. If this happens at 6-7a, it's going to make it a total mess....Yes. We are going to expand the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) in TSA Pre✓™ at select checkpoints. However, the vast majority of passengers in TSA Pre✓™ will still be screened via a walk-through metal detector. This will primarily be rolled out at larger airports with more than one TSA Pre✓™ lane.
TSA Pre✓™ eligible passengers, who prefer to be screened via an AIT, will now have the opportunity to do so at these select checkpoints. Many passengers with joint replacements, prosthetics or other medical devices that would regularly alarm when passing through a walk-through metal detector often prefer this technology because it is quicker and less invasive than a pat-down. Unlike standard lanes, passengers will not be required to divest their shoes, light outerwear and/or belt in the AIT.
Previously, if a passenger alarmed when passing through the walk-through metal detector after multiple passes, that passenger would be required to receive a pat-down. Passengers at these select TSA Pre✓™ checkpoints, where available, will now have the option of being screened via AIT, possibly precluding the need for a pat-down. - Question: Answer:Is there a clear/public way for dealing with complaints against TSOs?Yes. Definitely. I know you may not believe it, but all complaints do get forwarded to the TSA leadership at that airport to investigate. Two different ways to contact us to report this -- and we want travelers to provide feedback so it can be addressed ASAP. The more details, the better.
For example, someone last night posted something on twitter regarding an interaction with one of our employees. We immediately flagged that for our leadership at the airport so it can be addressed.
Option 1: You can submit comments electronically using this form.
Option 2: Call 1-866-289-9673 or email [email protected] - Question: Answer:Is it a requirement for a pax to state their name when asked by the TDC as according to the regs, the only things needed to enter the secure are are an I/D containing a picture of the pax standing in front of the TDC and a boarding pass for a flight on that date with the name on the boarding passs matching the name on the I/D presented by the pax-and if it is in fact required, why is this procedure not followed at every airport that I travel thru (and this is at airports where the lines at the checkpoints are both horrendously long and empty?I travel often, and this is the first time I have heard this. It is just matching the name to the BP, and verifying origin/date, etc. Sometimes a BDO might talk with the pax. But let me take this back to some of our experts to find out. As I said above, I don't have all of the answers, but promise to see what I can find out.
- Question: Where can I find a listing of TSA Twitter feeds?
Answer: All of the TSA Twitter accounts are listed here.
For a full list of all posts by TSAPressSec, view their profile here: TSAPressSec and select the Find All Posts By TSAPressSec
Greetings from TSA
Aug 21, 2014, 10:06 am
#211
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,332
Well, that's pretty obvious - if you are selected for an AIT scan, whether by alarming the WTMD or by random chance or because a TSO is having a bad day and takes issue with your hair, eye, or skin color or accent or the fact that you're wearing a watch worth more than he makes in a month, you can either take the AIT scan, or you can opt out and get a full body rubdown with genital contact, coupled with a complete bag search where all of your items are removed and individually swabbed for an ETD test.
Aug 21, 2014, 10:09 am
#212
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
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Well, that's pretty obvious - if you are selected for an AIT scan, whether by alarming the WTMD or by random chance or because a TSO is having a bad day and takes issue with your hair, eye, or skin color or accent or the fact that you're wearing a watch worth more than he makes in a month, you can either take the AIT scan, or you can opt out and get a full body rubdown with genital contact, coupled with a complete bag search where all of your items are removed and individually swabbed for an ETD test.
Aug 21, 2014, 11:03 am
#213
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,332
We've been told, more than once, that those who are not physically able to go through AIT can be screened by WTMD and hand swabs. However, there are still plenty of reports of people with shoulder issues being told by individual TSOs that they are opt-outs, and being forced to undergo the enhanced pat-down. Since the rules are not enforced, there is absolutely no way to know what you will encounter, because you don't know whether you'll encounter TSOs and TSMs who follow the rules or not.
Meanwhile, if you're medically unable to go through WTMD, you're told that the only alternatives are AIT or the pat-down. If you're physically unable to walk through the WTMD or AIT, such as those confined to wheelchairs, then your only alternative is the pat-down.
Whatever fluff the TSA propaganda machine may put out to the contrary, people in wheelchairs are, quite simply, forced to undergo a physical search every time they transit a c/p. How extensive, invasive, and abusive this search is depends entirely on the TSOs conducting it.
Aug 21, 2014, 11:10 am
#214
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Whatever fluff the TSA propaganda machine may put out to the contrary, people in wheelchairs are, quite simply, forced to undergo a physical search every time they transit a c/p. How extensive, invasive, and abusive this search is depends entirely on the TSOs conducting it.
Aug 21, 2014, 11:41 am
#215
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,681
Wheelchairs and prosthetics present a unique problem, because there's no practical way to screen the person separate from their hardware.
Canes are another matter entirely. Every checkpoint should have non-alarming canes and they should be pro-actively offered to any WTMD-eligible pax using a cane or walker who is otherwise forced to use the NoS or get a grope. The NoS isn't even always an option because some of these folks have balance issues and can't hold still long enough for a successful scan without their cane or walker (not to mention it's a potential safety hazard).
Canes are another matter entirely. Every checkpoint should have non-alarming canes and they should be pro-actively offered to any WTMD-eligible pax using a cane or walker who is otherwise forced to use the NoS or get a grope. The NoS isn't even always an option because some of these folks have balance issues and can't hold still long enough for a successful scan without their cane or walker (not to mention it's a potential safety hazard).
Aug 22, 2014, 5:37 pm
#216
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Happily living in Frenaros Cyprus having escaped the near-death experience called Sofia Bulgaria
Programs: Etihad Guest Gold, DL FO and 1MM, and a bunch of others at a low level
Posts: 2,052
Not at all. I was unaware this was occurring. However, word has gone from HQ that TSOs should not be asking passengers to, "state your name for me." That is not to say that our officer might say, "How are you Mr. Smith," or "Have a nice day Mrs. Jones." If you hear that this is still occurring, please let me know.
We have limited staff in our public affairs office, so being on FlyerTalk as much as I originally envisioned is much more difficult. But no, I have not given up.
We have limited staff in our public affairs office, so being on FlyerTalk as much as I originally envisioned is much more difficult. But no, I have not given up.
Aug 28, 2014, 6:17 am
#217
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
Canes are another matter entirely. Every checkpoint should have non-alarming canes and they should be pro-actively offered to any WTMD-eligible pax using a cane or walker who is otherwise forced to use the NoS or get a grope. The NoS isn't even always an option because some of these folks have balance issues and can't hold still long enough for a successful scan without their cane or walker (not to mention it's a potential safety hazard).
My canes were xrayed and returned to me afterwards, and I was given a seated patdown.
Aug 28, 2014, 6:18 am
#218
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
@TSAPressSec - still waiting for an answer:
Ross -
Here are a few very specific questions for you.
If you need time to answer them or aren't allowed to, please respond saying so w/ an ETA or explanation, rather than not responding until you have clearance (because that looks like ignoring the question).
1. If presented with the pax's US passport, may a TSO / TDC demand that a pax present any secondary form of ID, for any reason?
(Note: if the TDC suspects the passport is false, then they should probably be calling the police for felony violation of 18 USC §§ 1028, 1543, and/or 1544.
Note that violating a safe conduct or passport is also a felony, under 18 USC § 1545.)
2. What is the SOP for screening someone who states that they are medically unable to hold their arms above their head as required for the AIT scanners, but are able to walk through a metal detector?
Are they to be given WTMD + hand swab, full patdown, SSSS treatment, …?
3. The current TSA website states both that passengers may take medical liquids "in reasonable quantities".
What is the SOP to determine how much liquid is "reasonable" for a given traveler to carry?
What is the law authorizing TSA personnel to make a medical determination of this sort?
4. Does the TSA purport to have authority other than to conduct a search that is "no more extensive nor intensive than necessary, in the light of current technology, to detect the presence of weapons or explosives, that it is confined in good faith to that purpose, and that potential passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly"?
For instance, if TSA believes that someone is carrying 20 gallons of shampoo, but has no reason to believe that the shampoo is a weapon or explosive (e.g. the pax volunteers to have it tested, and if tested, it x-rays and ETD tests clean), what grounds if any does the TSA have to deny them boarding (together with their 20 gallons of shampoo)?
(Note of course that this question is completely independent of whether the airline agrees to transport that. I'm asking about TSA rules, not private contracts.)
Thank you in advance for answering, if you do.
Here are a few very specific questions for you.
If you need time to answer them or aren't allowed to, please respond saying so w/ an ETA or explanation, rather than not responding until you have clearance (because that looks like ignoring the question).
1. If presented with the pax's US passport, may a TSO / TDC demand that a pax present any secondary form of ID, for any reason?
(Note: if the TDC suspects the passport is false, then they should probably be calling the police for felony violation of 18 USC §§ 1028, 1543, and/or 1544.
Note that violating a safe conduct or passport is also a felony, under 18 USC § 1545.)
2. What is the SOP for screening someone who states that they are medically unable to hold their arms above their head as required for the AIT scanners, but are able to walk through a metal detector?
Are they to be given WTMD + hand swab, full patdown, SSSS treatment, …?
3. The current TSA website states both that passengers may take medical liquids "in reasonable quantities".
What is the SOP to determine how much liquid is "reasonable" for a given traveler to carry?
What is the law authorizing TSA personnel to make a medical determination of this sort?
4. Does the TSA purport to have authority other than to conduct a search that is "no more extensive nor intensive than necessary, in the light of current technology, to detect the presence of weapons or explosives, that it is confined in good faith to that purpose, and that potential passengers may avoid the search by electing not to fly"?
For instance, if TSA believes that someone is carrying 20 gallons of shampoo, but has no reason to believe that the shampoo is a weapon or explosive (e.g. the pax volunteers to have it tested, and if tested, it x-rays and ETD tests clean), what grounds if any does the TSA have to deny them boarding (together with their 20 gallons of shampoo)?
(Note of course that this question is completely independent of whether the airline agrees to transport that. I'm asking about TSA rules, not private contracts.)
Thank you in advance for answering, if you do.
Aug 28, 2014, 6:22 am
#219
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
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Posts: 13,167
FWIW, I have gone through TSA checkpoint once so far w/ two canes (necessary for balance), and I was given a (single) non-alarming cane while going through the WTMD (I stated that I was unable to raise my hands in the way necessary for the NoS).
My canes were xrayed and returned to me afterwards, and I was given a seated patdown.
My canes were xrayed and returned to me afterwards, and I was given a seated patdown.
With no metal on, one security agent had me lean on him, and we walked through together, and he helped me back in the chair.
If only that kind of service was available by the TSA...
I was barred from using the WTMD and forced to a body scanner. I opted out because I couldn't assume the position (and cuz I don't like them). Boy were they mad at me, thinking I was throwing a gift horse in the face (they gave the NoS to *help* me, and here I am refusing).
That was nerve wracking
Aug 28, 2014, 1:12 pm
#220
Company Representative, TSA
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 101
And let me know where/when.
Aug 29, 2014, 7:48 am
#221
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Looking forward to the next time there is an opportunity to say: "john jacob jingleheimer schmidt, his name is my name too".
Indeed. The American nomenklatura and the favorites of such are participating in and operating under a more refined and technologically-extensive version of a key element of the Soviet system, an element derided by us in the days of the Cold War but since adopted by us the supposed winners of that conflict. Anyone who thinks that American passengers aren't subject to NSA and NSA-partner surveillance findings contributing to our "scoring" for PreCheck are -- to put it simply -- way too clueless.
"Comrade, you're a good 'party' member, here's your reward."
"He is not 'loyal' enough to the 'party', so his privileges are hereby revoked."
"Why were my privileges revoked?" "Former comrade, that is classified/SSI/private."
It's not about how fast it takes a citizen to get through the TSA checkpoint. It's all about intrusiveness, privacy, and a proper response to a validated threat. You people have done a great job since 2001 of manipulating the debate to avoid this issue.
Many of us have written on FT that PreCheck is nothing more than a government extortion program designed to silence a group of adversaries (frequent flyers) by addicting them to PreCheck just like a pusher slowly addicts a victim on drugs. At first, the pusher give you the drugs for free. When he has you hooked, he starts charging you more & more. Because you are addicted by then, you are willing to pay any price.
I personally have likened PreCheck to the Communist system of privileges. In this case, the Party (i.e.: TSA) wishes to silence dissent among a large group of citizens. The party creates a system of privileges it grants to this now-privileged class of people. The privileged class dare not speak out against the party because the party can take away those privileges at any time for any reason.
...and, we all lined up (Some of us didn't line up and never will.) and gladly paid our $85 because we wanted our government to designate us as "privileged."
Shame on us.
Many of us have written on FT that PreCheck is nothing more than a government extortion program designed to silence a group of adversaries (frequent flyers) by addicting them to PreCheck just like a pusher slowly addicts a victim on drugs. At first, the pusher give you the drugs for free. When he has you hooked, he starts charging you more & more. Because you are addicted by then, you are willing to pay any price.
I personally have likened PreCheck to the Communist system of privileges. In this case, the Party (i.e.: TSA) wishes to silence dissent among a large group of citizens. The party creates a system of privileges it grants to this now-privileged class of people. The privileged class dare not speak out against the party because the party can take away those privileges at any time for any reason.
...and, we all lined up (Some of us didn't line up and never will.) and gladly paid our $85 because we wanted our government to designate us as "privileged."
Shame on us.
"Comrade, you're a good 'party' member, here's your reward."
"He is not 'loyal' enough to the 'party', so his privileges are hereby revoked."
"Why were my privileges revoked?" "Former comrade, that is classified/SSI/private."
Aug 29, 2014, 8:32 am
#222
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
"nomenklatura" -- thanks for helping me remember the Russian term.
Interestingly, and for the skeptical, read the quote below and my adaptation of it for America's airports:
Adapted for the PreCheck extortion:
Interestingly, and for the skeptical, read the quote below and my adaptation of it for America's airports:
Coextensive with the nomenklatura were patron-client relations. Officials who had the authority to appoint individuals to certain positions cultivated loyalties among those whom they appointed. The patron (the official making the appointment) promoted the interests of clients in return for their support. Powerful patrons, such as the members of the Politburo, had many clients. Moreover, an official could be both a client (in relation to a higher-level patron) and a patron (to other, lower-level officials).
Because a client was beholden to his patron for his position, the client was eager to please his patron by carrying out his policies. The Soviet power structure essentially consisted (according to its critics) of groups of vassals (clients) who had an overlord (the patron). The higher the patron, the more clients the patron had. Patrons protected their clients and tried to promote their careers. In return for the patron's efforts to promote their careers, the clients remained loyal to their patron. Thus, by promoting his clients' careers, the patron could advance his own power.
Because a client was beholden to his patron for his position, the client was eager to please his patron by carrying out his policies. The Soviet power structure essentially consisted (according to its critics) of groups of vassals (clients) who had an overlord (the patron). The higher the patron, the more clients the patron had. Patrons protected their clients and tried to promote their careers. In return for the patron's efforts to promote their careers, the clients remained loyal to their patron. Thus, by promoting his clients' careers, the patron could advance his own power.
Coextensive with the nomenklatura were TSA-PreCheck passenger relations. Officials who had the authority to appoint individuals to certain positions cultivated loyalties among those whom they appointed. The TSA promoted the interests of PreCheck passengers in return for their support.
Because a PreCheck passenger was beholden to the TSA for his position, the PreCheck passenger was eager to please the TSA by carrying out TSA policies. The 21st Century U.S. Government power structure essentially consisted of groups of Precheck passengers who had an overlord (the TSA). The TSA protected their PreCheck passengers and tried to promote a hassle-free airport security experience. In return for the TSA's efforts, the PreCheck passengers remained loyal to the TSA.
Because a PreCheck passenger was beholden to the TSA for his position, the PreCheck passenger was eager to please the TSA by carrying out TSA policies. The 21st Century U.S. Government power structure essentially consisted of groups of Precheck passengers who had an overlord (the TSA). The TSA protected their PreCheck passengers and tried to promote a hassle-free airport security experience. In return for the TSA's efforts, the PreCheck passengers remained loyal to the TSA.
Sep 2, 2014, 10:08 am
#223
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: CO, UA, AA, WN, DL Gold
Posts: 2,981
Different mn on PP and DL
My wife and I have decided to apply for Pre-check. We both meet all the qualifications so there shouldn't be a problem.
One thing though, she has a different middle name on her Drivers license and passport. Which should we use for Pre? Than match all our airlines FF info to that? And if it is her passport one, will she have to use this as an ID to check in and pass security on all flights including domestic? Bit of a hassle to check in with PP on domestic travel.
Thanks for any info.
One thing though, she has a different middle name on her Drivers license and passport. Which should we use for Pre? Than match all our airlines FF info to that? And if it is her passport one, will she have to use this as an ID to check in and pass security on all flights including domestic? Bit of a hassle to check in with PP on domestic travel.
Thanks for any info.
Sep 3, 2014, 7:54 am
#224
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mostly living in the basement
Programs: Newly minted free agent; MR LT(!)TE, HH SE, BA SECM, DL MM, UA PS, 2V Fanboi, CBP GE
Posts: 5,108
My wife and I have decided to apply for Pre-check. We both meet all the qualifications so there shouldn't be a problem.
One thing though, she has a different middle name on her Drivers license and passport. Which should we use for Pre? Than match all our airlines FF info to that? And if it is her passport one, will she have to use this as an ID to check in and pass security on all flights including domestic? Bit of a hassle to check in with PP on domestic travel.
Thanks for any info.
One thing though, she has a different middle name on her Drivers license and passport. Which should we use for Pre? Than match all our airlines FF info to that? And if it is her passport one, will she have to use this as an ID to check in and pass security on all flights including domestic? Bit of a hassle to check in with PP on domestic travel.
Thanks for any info.
Sep 3, 2014, 12:47 pm
#225
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: CO, UA, AA, WN, DL Gold
Posts: 2,981