Mini-TR: MS in J (BUD-KUL) plus MS PJs and BUD Airport after MA bankruptcy
Feb 21, 2012, 12:38 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: TK*G (E+), IHG Plat Ambassador
Posts: 7,884
Mini-TR: MS in J (BUD-KUL) plus MS PJs and BUD Airport after MA bankruptcy
A few observations from my recent MS (Egyptair) BUD-CAI-(BKK)-KUL flight in C:
1. Egyptair Express sucks (the worst C-class flight ever, I mean it)
BUD-CAI-BUD flights are operated with Egyptair Express (Embraer 70 equipment) and Business Class sucks there. My expectations were set at a very, very low level, but I was not expected anything like this:
- catering exactly the same as in Y
- no glasses or china – only plastic crockery, no proper cutlery – only very low quality plastic knife and fork (that I managed to break)
- F/A was totally disinterested and didn’t make even a single attempt to smile or maintain eye contact
- I was not offered anything after the meals/drinks were distributed and the F/A was surprised when I asked for another Pepsi (as it they would have ‘one serving per passenger’ policy), and BTW I was the only revenue pax in C (the other one was the relief pilot)
- seats are the same as in Y (IIRC MS has dedicated C cabins/seats – similar to F-class on US domestic flights - on all other aircraft types; only Embraers have exactly the same seats in both Y and C)
Positives:
- hot food was good (as for Y-class) – excellent spicy chicken, some salad and dessert
- it seems that there are 2 Air Marshalls on each MS flight and when one of them attempted to self-upgrade to C after departure, the F/A sent him back to Y
- there was a separate bus for C passengers (i.e. for me and the relief pilot) taking us to the terminal
Overall, I would not recommend flying with Egyptair Express.
2. B777-300: one on the best hard products around (just maintain low expectations for the soft product
)
C-class seats on B777-300 are excellent and beat ALL lie-flat & even SOME fully flat seats I know. The seat pitch is enormous – the best I have ever seen. The seats are probably not 100% fully flat, but very comfortable, anyway. IFE (AVOD) is great – acceptable selection of movies, games, moving maps, CDs. And navigation is easy and very intuitive (also for creating playlists). IFE is switched on already the ground, but low quality headphones are only distributed after departure (so I started playing Solitaire before the pushback).
After this experience my list of the best C-class seats, would be as follows:
- US Airways Envoy Suites [now available on most A330s]
- TG old F sold as C on flights between BKK and CPH/ARN
- TG herringbone config on B773s leased from 9W
- MS on B773s
- new LA
- NZ Business Premier
- BA NGCW
- new UA [still not available on most B777s, grrrr]
The amenity kit was – again - the largest, I have ever seen and contained acceptable quality pyjamas (yep – I mean it – PJs), EdT, balm lip and some other goodies (like mint pastilles
). Link to pictures: https://picasaweb.google.com/1001229...eat=directlink
Pre-departure drinks were served in proper glasses. (BTW Egyptair is a dry airline, but I knew about it beforehand).
Meals were served on proper crockery this time: appetizer, cheese plate with 3 slices of cheese, salad with two or three dressing to choose from. The appetizer was awful (low quality salmon on cheese slices?!?!) and empty appetizer/salad plates were not collected before the main course was served. At first, I thought the F/As just forgot to collect them, but the experience repeated itself on the BKK-KUL leg, so I think this is just how it works with MS. I didn’t take any pictures in-flight, but for photos you may wish to check this excellent Trip Report: http://ptn-onboard.blogspot.com/2011...000-miles.html (this gentleman had exactly the same appetizer and main course).
There were no printed menus, but main course meals were presented from the trolley. I picked salmon with rice that was good.
They trays were then collected and desserts (two to choose from) & tee/coffee were served.
There were 5 or maybe even 6 F/As working in C-cabin on this flight – one female F/A was both smiling and maintaining eye contact and the other guy was quite attentive, the rest was more like the Egyptair Express F/A from my previous flight. There were 2 galleys in the C-cabin and during the meal service F/As were running back and forth between them; the second Business mini-cabin (3 rows) - located just behind the second galley - is probably much quieter.
Once the meal service ended, I have never seen any F/A patrolling the cabin and offering something to drink (but I slept for good 4 hours plus I had my own bottle of water, so didn’t really care).
There was breakfast offer before landing in BKK, but I skipped this meal. IFE was turn on until landing and headsets were not collected until arrival into the gate (same as with NZ or TG).
3. BKK-KUL leg
There were only 4 pax in the entire C-cabin on the BKK-KUL leg (and probably about 25 from CAI to BKK, I think C-cabin capacity is 49 seats, Y was about 90% & 30% full to BKK and KUL, respectively).
After arrival into BKK, all passengers were requested to leave the aircraft, but these flying to KUL were encouraged to leave their hand bags on board. I left my wheeled bag and a small backpack with laptop and took only my passport and wallet. All baggage was in the intact state when I returned. We were told to clear security and return to the gate in 20 minutes what was a total insanity as the aircraft was scheduled to be on the ground in BKK for 120 minutes. I went to TG lounge [and experienced the slowest Internet connection on the PCs installed there].
From BKK to KUL the meals were absolutely excellent: 1/2 of a huge avocado with salmon (yummy!), nice salad, some dessert. For the main course, I had beef that was also very good. The F/As were quite attentive and attempted to both smile and maintain eye contact. Nice…
IFE (AVOD) was switched on, but they do not distribute headsets on this leg
- fortunately I had my own headsets, so could listen to the music.
4. How to survive on a dry airline
I didn’t have any problem with this… As a precaution, I bought 2 miniatures (50 ml) in the duty free in BUD, but in fact I have never used them. I also had 2 G&Ts in the lounge in BUD (that definitely helped me to survive this Egyptair Express flight). Plus in BKK – where we had this 2 hour stopover – I went to the TG lounge to have another G&T. While having a drink or two (or three or four), is part of the premium travel experience, I didn’t have even the slightest problem with flying on a dry airline.
Also FYI… booze is still sold in all the bars in CAI Terminal 3, but I heard there are some attempts to make Egypt a totally dry country (a la Saudi Arabia or Kuwait), so this may change any time soon.
5. NON-REVing on Egyptair
This is an interesting experience: once boarding in CAI finished, the Cabin Service Manager (or whatever his title was – he was wearing a uniform in a different color) was approached by three passengers – there was some discussion and one person was sent back to Y while the other two were given seats in C. I was behind this poor guy who was sent back to Y, queuing up for the boarding pass & security check, so I am sure he was a Non-Rev as he knew the gate agents and all the security folks. I guess the other lucky two were, therefore, also Non-Revs. Funny enough, they were not given anything to drink and eat until service (to revenue passengers) ended. Only then they were served with meals (with all the courses on one try). I am not sure, if this is something normal on Egyptair, but the whole thing looked a bit weird…
Another observation: the relief pilot was served drinks in plastic glasses
6. CAI Airport
Positives:
- very easy to transit
- nice lounges (4 to choose from)
- good food in the lounges (spicy chicken, lasagna, cheeses, vegetables, sandwiches) – I am not sure if all lounges offer hot food, though. I do not recall any hot food in the lounge LX (that I used to use flying to CAI on previous occasions) sends its premium/status passengers to. The lounge I used this time was the nearest to the ‘G’ gates.
- complimentary wi-fi with a very strong signal (dedicated wi-fi in the lounges AND complimentary airport wi-fi!). I think both MS and CAI Airport deserve a few rounds of kudos for making sure quality wi-fi connection is available for passengers (for free)!
- nice duty free shops with (sometimes) competitive prices
Negatives:
- two security controls for transit passengers (one to access the departure area upstairs and the other on at the gate)
- new Terminal 3 is still ‘new’ but already a bit worn (including lounges)
- TIP: do not forget to collect your Lounge Invitation from the Transfer Desk before clearing transit security
7. Air Marshalls
Looks like there are two Air Marshalls on each MS flight. Their only activity, I noticed, was to check BPs at the aircraft entrance doors. Also… in CAI my BP was checked 5 times, before I was allowed to board: first at the transit security, then at the gate entrance, then at the gate security, then at the jetty entrance and finally by Air Marshalls at the aircraft entrance door. But I have to admit, that even with all the checks the boarding process was fairly quickly and I had to queue up for maybe 10 minutes to pass all these security checks…
Would I fly with MS again?
Taking into consideration, that the price of my MS ticket in Business was almost EUR 200 lower that the price I was offered on LH/TG in Economy (this is not a mistake – fare in C on MS was lower that insanely high fare in Y on LH/TG), the answer is: YES.
The hard product on B773s is excellent; flying on a dry airline is not a major inconvenience; once you admit that MS is not OZ or TG, even (soft) service standards look acceptable.
Naturally, I would try to avoid Egyptair Express, but would be extremely happy to fly on B777-300-operated flights.
BTW… All the flights were on time.
BONUS: BUD Airport after MA bankruptcy:
I took a few pictures of BUD Airport after MA bankruptcy…
On the day of my outbound travel Terminal 2B (i.e. former Malev Terminal) was totally deserted. I noticed that they started removing MA signs located behind some check-in counters. [For the information of those who do not follow the news from BUD: once MA went bankrupt, FR decided to close the gap and opened a base at Farihegy Airport. It took them TWO WEEKS to establish this base, initially with two aircraft and about FIVETEEN flights a day. For the summer season, they plan to operate about 35 routes from BUD – probably more than MA ever operated. While FR is not my favorite airline and I always try to avoid them, I have to admit that the way they run their business is impressive. I do not see any other airline being able to create a base in a new place within 2 weeks. Also BUD Airport Authorities probably do not have much faith in MA rebound, as they gave FR space in the former MA/oneWorld Terminal.]
Link to pictures: https://picasaweb.google.com/1001229...eat=directlink
1. Egyptair Express sucks (the worst C-class flight ever, I mean it)
BUD-CAI-BUD flights are operated with Egyptair Express (Embraer 70 equipment) and Business Class sucks there. My expectations were set at a very, very low level, but I was not expected anything like this:
- catering exactly the same as in Y
- no glasses or china – only plastic crockery, no proper cutlery – only very low quality plastic knife and fork (that I managed to break)
- F/A was totally disinterested and didn’t make even a single attempt to smile or maintain eye contact
- I was not offered anything after the meals/drinks were distributed and the F/A was surprised when I asked for another Pepsi (as it they would have ‘one serving per passenger’ policy), and BTW I was the only revenue pax in C (the other one was the relief pilot)
- seats are the same as in Y (IIRC MS has dedicated C cabins/seats – similar to F-class on US domestic flights - on all other aircraft types; only Embraers have exactly the same seats in both Y and C)
Positives:
- hot food was good (as for Y-class) – excellent spicy chicken, some salad and dessert
- it seems that there are 2 Air Marshalls on each MS flight and when one of them attempted to self-upgrade to C after departure, the F/A sent him back to Y
- there was a separate bus for C passengers (i.e. for me and the relief pilot) taking us to the terminal
Overall, I would not recommend flying with Egyptair Express.
2. B777-300: one on the best hard products around (just maintain low expectations for the soft product
)C-class seats on B777-300 are excellent and beat ALL lie-flat & even SOME fully flat seats I know. The seat pitch is enormous – the best I have ever seen. The seats are probably not 100% fully flat, but very comfortable, anyway. IFE (AVOD) is great – acceptable selection of movies, games, moving maps, CDs. And navigation is easy and very intuitive (also for creating playlists). IFE is switched on already the ground, but low quality headphones are only distributed after departure (so I started playing Solitaire before the pushback).
After this experience my list of the best C-class seats, would be as follows:
- US Airways Envoy Suites [now available on most A330s]
- TG old F sold as C on flights between BKK and CPH/ARN
- TG herringbone config on B773s leased from 9W
- MS on B773s
- new LA
- NZ Business Premier
- BA NGCW
- new UA [still not available on most B777s, grrrr]
The amenity kit was – again - the largest, I have ever seen and contained acceptable quality pyjamas (yep – I mean it – PJs
), EdT, balm lip and some other goodies (like mint pastilles). Link to pictures: https://picasaweb.google.com/1001229...eat=directlinkPre-departure drinks were served in proper glasses. (BTW Egyptair is a dry airline, but I knew about it beforehand).
Meals were served on proper crockery this time: appetizer, cheese plate with 3 slices of cheese, salad with two or three dressing to choose from. The appetizer was awful (low quality salmon on cheese slices?!?!) and empty appetizer/salad plates were not collected before the main course was served. At first, I thought the F/As just forgot to collect them, but the experience repeated itself on the BKK-KUL leg, so I think this is just how it works with MS. I didn’t take any pictures in-flight, but for photos you may wish to check this excellent Trip Report: http://ptn-onboard.blogspot.com/2011...000-miles.html (this gentleman had exactly the same appetizer and main course
).There were no printed menus, but main course meals were presented from the trolley. I picked salmon with rice that was good.
They trays were then collected and desserts (two to choose from) & tee/coffee were served.
There were 5 or maybe even 6 F/As working in C-cabin on this flight – one female F/A was both smiling and maintaining eye contact and the other guy was quite attentive, the rest was more like the Egyptair Express F/A from my previous flight. There were 2 galleys in the C-cabin and during the meal service F/As were running back and forth between them; the second Business mini-cabin (3 rows) - located just behind the second galley - is probably much quieter.
Once the meal service ended, I have never seen any F/A patrolling the cabin and offering something to drink (but I slept for good 4 hours plus I had my own bottle of water, so didn’t really care).
There was breakfast offer before landing in BKK, but I skipped this meal. IFE was turn on until landing and headsets were not collected until arrival into the gate (same as with NZ or TG).
3. BKK-KUL leg
There were only 4 pax in the entire C-cabin on the BKK-KUL leg (and probably about 25 from CAI to BKK, I think C-cabin capacity is 49 seats, Y was about 90% & 30% full to BKK and KUL, respectively).
After arrival into BKK, all passengers were requested to leave the aircraft, but these flying to KUL were encouraged to leave their hand bags on board. I left my wheeled bag and a small backpack with laptop and took only my passport and wallet. All baggage was in the intact state when I returned. We were told to clear security and return to the gate in 20 minutes what was a total insanity as the aircraft was scheduled to be on the ground in BKK for 120 minutes. I went to TG lounge [and experienced the slowest Internet connection on the PCs installed there].
From BKK to KUL the meals were absolutely excellent: 1/2 of a huge avocado with salmon (yummy!), nice salad, some dessert. For the main course, I had beef that was also very good. The F/As were quite attentive and attempted to both smile and maintain eye contact. Nice…
IFE (AVOD) was switched on, but they do not distribute headsets on this leg
- fortunately I had my own headsets, so could listen to the music.4. How to survive on a dry airline
I didn’t have any problem with this… As a precaution, I bought 2 miniatures (50 ml) in the duty free in BUD, but in fact I have never used them. I also had 2 G&Ts in the lounge in BUD (that definitely helped me to survive this Egyptair Express flight). Plus in BKK – where we had this 2 hour stopover – I went to the TG lounge to have another G&T. While having a drink or two (or three or four), is part of the premium travel experience, I didn’t have even the slightest problem with flying on a dry airline.
Also FYI… booze is still sold in all the bars in CAI Terminal 3, but I heard there are some attempts to make Egypt a totally dry country (a la Saudi Arabia or Kuwait), so this may change any time soon.
5. NON-REVing on Egyptair
This is an interesting experience: once boarding in CAI finished, the Cabin Service Manager (or whatever his title was – he was wearing a uniform in a different color) was approached by three passengers – there was some discussion and one person was sent back to Y while the other two were given seats in C. I was behind this poor guy who was sent back to Y, queuing up for the boarding pass & security check, so I am sure he was a Non-Rev as he knew the gate agents and all the security folks. I guess the other lucky two were, therefore, also Non-Revs. Funny enough, they were not given anything to drink and eat until service (to revenue passengers) ended. Only then they were served with meals (with all the courses on one try). I am not sure, if this is something normal on Egyptair, but the whole thing looked a bit weird…
Another observation: the relief pilot was served drinks in plastic glasses
6. CAI Airport
Positives:
- very easy to transit
- nice lounges (4 to choose from)
- good food in the lounges (spicy chicken, lasagna, cheeses, vegetables, sandwiches) – I am not sure if all lounges offer hot food, though. I do not recall any hot food in the lounge LX (that I used to use flying to CAI on previous occasions) sends its premium/status passengers to. The lounge I used this time was the nearest to the ‘G’ gates.
- complimentary wi-fi with a very strong signal (dedicated wi-fi in the lounges AND complimentary airport wi-fi!). I think both MS and CAI Airport deserve a few rounds of kudos for making sure quality wi-fi connection is available for passengers (for free)!
- nice duty free shops with (sometimes) competitive prices
Negatives:
- two security controls for transit passengers (one to access the departure area upstairs and the other on at the gate)
- new Terminal 3 is still ‘new’ but already a bit worn (including lounges)
- TIP: do not forget to collect your Lounge Invitation from the Transfer Desk before clearing transit security
7. Air Marshalls
Looks like there are two Air Marshalls on each MS flight. Their only activity, I noticed, was to check BPs at the aircraft entrance doors. Also… in CAI my BP was checked 5 times, before I was allowed to board: first at the transit security, then at the gate entrance, then at the gate security, then at the jetty entrance and finally by Air Marshalls at the aircraft entrance door. But I have to admit, that even with all the checks the boarding process was fairly quickly and I had to queue up for maybe 10 minutes to pass all these security checks…
Would I fly with MS again?
Taking into consideration, that the price of my MS ticket in Business was almost EUR 200 lower that the price I was offered on LH/TG in Economy (this is not a mistake – fare in C on MS was lower that insanely high fare in Y on LH/TG), the answer is: YES.
The hard product on B773s is excellent; flying on a dry airline is not a major inconvenience; once you admit that MS is not OZ or TG, even (soft) service standards look acceptable.
Naturally, I would try to avoid Egyptair Express, but would be extremely happy to fly on B777-300-operated flights.
BTW… All the flights were on time.
BONUS: BUD Airport after MA bankruptcy:
I took a few pictures of BUD Airport after MA bankruptcy…
On the day of my outbound travel Terminal 2B (i.e. former Malev Terminal) was totally deserted. I noticed that they started removing MA signs located behind some check-in counters. [For the information of those who do not follow the news from BUD: once MA went bankrupt, FR decided to close the gap and opened a base at Farihegy Airport. It took them TWO WEEKS to establish this base, initially with two aircraft and about FIVETEEN flights a day. For the summer season, they plan to operate about 35 routes from BUD – probably more than MA ever operated. While FR is not my favorite airline and I always try to avoid them, I have to admit that the way they run their business is impressive. I do not see any other airline being able to create a base in a new place within 2 weeks. Also BUD Airport Authorities probably do not have much faith in MA rebound, as they gave FR space in the former MA/oneWorld Terminal.]
Link to pictures: https://picasaweb.google.com/1001229...eat=directlink
Last edited by TPJ; Mar 10, 2012 at 6:28 am
Feb 21, 2012, 6:56 am
#2
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Bonvoy Gold, HH Diamond, PriorityPass, AX Plat
Posts: 531
Thanks for sharing, this is a very interesting TR! Wouldn't mind trying MS 777 at some point.
Feb 24, 2012, 6:56 pm
#6
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Fairfield County, CT USA
Programs: AA PLT+2MM / DL DM+1MM / A3 *G / Fairmont LT Plat / Ritz Gold / SPG Gold
Posts: 4,077
This was an interesting one. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. Bad (even dry and bad) c is usually a good trade up even from a good y...particularly if you can save some cash!
Feb 27, 2012, 4:28 am
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: TK*G (E+), IHG Plat Ambassador
Posts: 7,884
A few comments on the inbound portion:
- MH (Malaysia Airlines) is a handling agent for MS in KUL and they do not see onward connections in their DCS (Departure Control System = check-in system), so I was given only a BP to CAI
- MH Lounge (that MS uses) in KUL is excellent - one of the best I have ever been to (excellent meals, ice cream, self pouring champagne etc)
- In BKK the aircraft is on the ground for 110 minutes - enough time to visit TG lounge
- meals ex KUL/BKK were good
- CAI T3 is coping well with the morning peak - it took me 3 minutes to get a connecting BP (had to cut the queue to reach C-class transit counters) and maybe 2-3 more to pass the security check
- MS Express still sucks, but the F/As on my flight from CAI to BUD was nicer (than on the outbound)
- MH (Malaysia Airlines) is a handling agent for MS in KUL and they do not see onward connections in their DCS (Departure Control System = check-in system), so I was given only a BP to CAI
- MH Lounge (that MS uses) in KUL is excellent - one of the best I have ever been to (excellent meals, ice cream, self pouring champagne etc)
- In BKK the aircraft is on the ground for 110 minutes - enough time to visit TG lounge
- meals ex KUL/BKK were good
- CAI T3 is coping well with the morning peak - it took me 3 minutes to get a connecting BP (had to cut the queue to reach C-class transit counters) and maybe 2-3 more to pass the security check
- MS Express still sucks, but the F/As on my flight from CAI to BUD was nicer (than on the outbound)
May 3, 2012, 9:03 pm
#8
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MEX-LIS
Programs: QR-PLT, AM-Platino, TK-Elite
Posts: 298
A few comments on the inbound portion:
- MH (Malaysia Airlines) is a handling agent for MS in KUL and they do not see onward connections in their DCS (Departure Control System = check-in system), so I was given only a BP to CAI
- MH Lounge (that MS uses) in KUL is excellent - one of the best I have ever been to (excellent meals, ice cream, self pouring champagne etc)
- In BKK the aircraft is on the ground for 110 minutes - enough time to visit TG lounge
- meals ex KUL/BKK were good
- CAI T3 is coping well with the morning peak - it took me 3 minutes to get a connecting BP (had to cut the queue to reach C-class transit counters) and maybe 2-3 more to pass the security check
- MS Express still sucks, but the F/As on my flight from CAI to BUD was nicer (than on the outbound)
- MH (Malaysia Airlines) is a handling agent for MS in KUL and they do not see onward connections in their DCS (Departure Control System = check-in system), so I was given only a BP to CAI
- MH Lounge (that MS uses) in KUL is excellent - one of the best I have ever been to (excellent meals, ice cream, self pouring champagne etc)
- In BKK the aircraft is on the ground for 110 minutes - enough time to visit TG lounge
- meals ex KUL/BKK were good
- CAI T3 is coping well with the morning peak - it took me 3 minutes to get a connecting BP (had to cut the queue to reach C-class transit counters) and maybe 2-3 more to pass the security check
- MS Express still sucks, but the F/As on my flight from CAI to BUD was nicer (than on the outbound)
Contemplating to try MS C soon. You've sold it to me. MS it is.