Badenoch

Yes, a cash advance on your credit card at an ATM requires a PIN. I can recall being prompted for a PIN while making a purchase but don't remember the details. I believe it might have been a CVS pharmacy but am not sure.

mikesyr18

I'd rather just use my PIN preferring card so the waiter/waitress has a hassle. Perhaps if everyone had to do this, the restaurant industry would stop being stubborn and wake up.

It's unethical to take someone's money and disappear with it, which is essentially what they're doing when they take you card.

tmiw

Sounds good and all but outside tourist areas and such, most places will simply never see those cards often enough for anything to change--barring any major shifts by the banks, of course.

livebetter_travelmore

I believe it depends on the card you're using. If your card physically has a magnetic strip (in addition to the EMV chip as do most if not all US-issued EMV cards) and supports multiple authentication methods including signature, then a merchant/restaurant might just swipe the card instead. I've only been to one restaurant in the US thus far where the server brought a handheld device to the table, but if I recall correctly it was a tablet -- maybe an iPad -- with a slot in which they swiped the card. They did not use the EMV chip. As my card has PIN authentication first, but also supports signature, I thus just signed the bill.

I've also encountered the situation where a merchant had a terminal where I inserted the card for chip authentication, and after successfully entering the PIN, the terminal additionally required I sign. That sequence has been very rare; maybe one or two places (in the US). Ditto for Apple Pay; actually more common. That is, after using Apple Pay, I've also had to sign. I've read that some places impose a $ limit which when exceeded while using Apple Pay you're prompted to sign. That limit does not appear so far to me set by the card issuer as I have had relatively small purchases in the US, like just over $50, require signature, but then others over a $1000 where signature was not required while using Apple Pay.

Qwkynuf

Really?? What happens when you pay cash at a restaurant? Every time I have done so, they took my money and disappeared with it. And then reappeared with my change.

mikesyr18

So you overpay the waiter up front by giving them all of the cash in your bank account? Can the waiter write down the serial number on the cash and use it later on? Can they adjust the tip after you leave and charge you more money?

Don't think so. Not even the same thing.

Qwkynuf

{sigh....whatever....}

mikesyr18

I'm just messing with you, but I still made some solid points.

Physical cash is safer at restaurants because your entire bank account isn't being risked, nor is your payment information, or having the chance of your tip being adjusted by the waiter/waitress.

BigFlyer

I have had that happen in the US with Android pay.

In most countries in Europe, there is a maximum allowed amount for contactless cards - not sure if going over the amount (currently 30 UKP in the UK) means a rejection, or a PIN request.

I have used my Android Pay in Europe on the restaurant machines and the staff has been surprised that the transaction went through even though it was over the contactless limit. I assume this is because Android and Apple Pay have additional authentication on the phone side as you have to periodically enter a PIN or fingerprint on the phone. Thus while a contactless card that is lost/stolen is usable by anyone that has the card, there is no such danger with Apple Pay/Android Pay.

I have also found on occasion that restaurant staff is surprised that Android/Apple Pay works at all on their machines. I suspect this is because these methods were introduced more recently there.

mmff

This limit is set by the issuing bank or credit card network.

invisible

Former. Otherwise there would be same amount across different countries but it is different. Don't know what is limitation in US/EU/AU, for Russia for example it is equivalent of USD $20, for Singapore it is SGD $100.

der_saeufer

The standard restaurant POS systems for table-service restaurants in the US still use swipe-and-sign, so as long as your card has a mag stripe you'll sign the slip like everyone else--even if your card's EMV implementation doesn't support signature at all.

PINs wouldn't work with the current setup because the charge is finalized later based on the handwritten tip amount on the receipt.

As for the OP's question about embarrassment, as an American living in Europe, I use my CSR 99% of the time because I want those sweet, sweet airline miles (well, that and I get paid in USD so the zero FTF plastic is cheaper than paying from my EUR account). My local cards are reserved for times that the US card won't work.

cardsqc

Heck, I run into that a lot in the US. I'm amazed at the number of clerks I run into that say that's the first time they've ever seen someone pay with their phone. Plus the inevitable "we're not set up for apple pay" then looks of amazement when the samsung pay works. And I live in a college town, I'd have thought it'd be far more common for people to be using their phone here.

pinniped

Don't worry: we're going to ban science soon enough, so that won't be a worry anymore.

If we can't legislate it out of existence, we'll just kill it slowly by appointing non-scientists to scientific positions.

tmiw

The card networks have their own management and rules for each country/region so it's very possible that it's set on a per-country basis that way.

While that's still extremely common, I have been to several restaurants (CPK as noted above, among others) where they basically attached PIN pads that look similar to what Subway and Starbucks use to the side of their POSes. Cards are still taken away and brought back; the difference is that "chip read" or similar is on the receipt instead of "swiped". Unfortunately some of those didn't do a complete job and still left PIN support turned on, which could cause issues for people with foreign cards.

IMO the card networks should have flat out said "the US will not adopt PIN" (instead of leaving it to the banks to de-facto adopt that position) and made changes to the rules to ensure that it's never asked for domestically. Or actually mandated PIN on our cards, but I feel like there'd be more merchant resistance that way.

I suspect most people are perfectly okay with physical cards, chip or no. The seemingly "universal" complaining is in reality a very loud few.

I also suspect the mobile wallets get far more use in apps like Panera and Starbucks than for in-person purchases but I don't have the numbers offhand.