Avoid the "Signature of Shame" With Android Pay/Apple Pay
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,750
Avoid the "Signature of Shame" With Android Pay/Apple Pay
Many of us Americans (not Canadians) have been through it. We have a nice meal, we kind of blend in with the locals, and then it's time to pay. They take our chip card, put it in the payment machine - and out pops the paper with the space for a signature. They then know that we come from that country where the banks believe the populace is too dumb to remember a 4 number PIN.
In a recent trip to Europe, I found that many of those payment terminals are enabled for contactless payment - which means that if you use Android Pay or Apple Pay, there is no signature required. This also worked on machines in Dutch train stations that otherwise required Chip + PIN to purchase a ticket.
Look for the contactless symbol:
In a recent trip to Europe, I found that many of those payment terminals are enabled for contactless payment - which means that if you use Android Pay or Apple Pay, there is no signature required. This also worked on machines in Dutch train stations that otherwise required Chip + PIN to purchase a ticket.
Look for the contactless symbol:
#2
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
I pay with the kit I have. I even carry a pen because I know I'll be signing the receipt. And I'm quite certain that any judgement the staff foisted upon me (of which I assume there was very little) had no effect on my experience at that shop or the rest of my trip.
Also, ATMs have used 4-digit PIN codes for years. No one believes that American cannot remember a 4-digit number.
#3
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHL
Programs: AA - Plat, HHonors - Diamond, IHG - Plat, Marriott - Gold, National - Exec, Amtrak - Select, NEXUS
Posts: 1,075
Plus, the US banks believe that requiring a PIN would be a burdensome step and discourage Americans from using credit.
Remember, a credit transaction is more lucrative for processors than a debit transaction. Also keep in mind how much kavetching from consumers (and some reporters) has occurred in the past year about how inconvenient chip terminals are, how difficult it is to remember to take the card back after the transaction, and other mindless drivel relating to typical human resistance to change. I don't blame the banks for assuming the worst about the average American consumer.
When I go to Canada, most Canadians are incredulous that we are still signing for transactions. I even have one colleague that swears that my US cards aren't going to work at (insert Canadian merchant here) since I don't have a PIN for my CCs.
There are surely some unmanned kiosks that a non-PIN card will fail to work, but I haven't found one yet. My EMV contact chip card works just fine in all the gas stations and parking kiosks I've tried so far in the Great White North.
#4
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: gggrrrovvveee (ORD)
Programs: UA Pt, Marriott Ti, Hertz PC
Posts: 6,091
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,750
So why not simply employ the full chip-and-pin system in the U.S., rather than just the chip? The answer, it seems, is fear of overwhelming the average American consumer, who uses between four and five credit cards.
“Unless everybody’s all in with the pin system at once, the issuer who goes to pin in advance risks their customers not using the card because they can’t remember their pin,” Mr. Robertson says.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle26590985/
“Unless everybody’s all in with the pin system at once, the issuer who goes to pin in advance risks their customers not using the card because they can’t remember their pin,” Mr. Robertson says.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle26590985/
#8
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 132
Many of us Americans (not Canadians) have been through it. We have a nice meal, we kind of blend in with the locals, and then it's time to pay. They take our chip card, put it in the payment machine - and out pops the paper with the space for a signature. They then know that we come from that country where the banks believe the populace is too dumb to remember a 4 number PIN.
In a recent trip to Europe, I found that many of those payment terminals are enabled for contactless payment - which means that if you use Android Pay or Apple Pay, there is no signature required. This also worked on machines in Dutch train stations that otherwise required Chip + PIN to purchase a ticket.
Look for the contactless symbol:
In a recent trip to Europe, I found that many of those payment terminals are enabled for contactless payment - which means that if you use Android Pay or Apple Pay, there is no signature required. This also worked on machines in Dutch train stations that otherwise required Chip + PIN to purchase a ticket.
Look for the contactless symbol:
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,012
I also managed to get a PIN activated with one of my cards, specifically to buy tickets at the kiosk at Paris Metro stations.
I'm certainly not "shamed" by signing a piece of paper, but it is a waste of time.
I'm certainly not "shamed" by signing a piece of paper, but it is a waste of time.
#10
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,921
I've had a Canadian chip and pin Visa card for at least a decade. It's fast, convenient and not a problem at all. When I use it in any other country than the US it works the same way. In the US I have to sign the chit , and Visa skims 2.5% on top of hosing me on the exchange rate. It also doesn't work in most gas pumps because the pumps believe everyone in the world has a US zip code .
To avoid getting hosed on the exchange I got a US$ Visa card a few years ago. No chip, no pin, still needed to sign , still didn't work in the gas pumps . A couple of weeks ago I received a replacement for this card, with chip and pin! Finally. Tried it on a trip this week. Still have to sign in most places , but in a few I could use the pin. It also works in gas pumps if you use the workaround to enter a Canadian postal code*. ^
If we could drag the US kicking and screaming into the 20th century we'd only be one century behind.
* Enter the three numerals from your Canadian postal code followed by 00.
To avoid getting hosed on the exchange I got a US$ Visa card a few years ago. No chip, no pin, still needed to sign , still didn't work in the gas pumps . A couple of weeks ago I received a replacement for this card, with chip and pin! Finally. Tried it on a trip this week. Still have to sign in most places , but in a few I could use the pin. It also works in gas pumps if you use the workaround to enter a Canadian postal code*. ^
If we could drag the US kicking and screaming into the 20th century we'd only be one century behind.
* Enter the three numerals from your Canadian postal code followed by 00.
#12
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Prince Edward Island
Programs: Air Canada P25K, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Gold, MGM Gold
Posts: 1,583
Not sure about American cards, but Canadian cards also have tap and pay (contactless), although it can only be used for smaller transactions (up to $100?). It is much more convenient than a pin or signature.
#13
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,275
We allow you to use your PINless cards at our gas stations, but you
do not allow us to use our Zip Code-less cards at your gas stations.
It is so frustrating not to be able to use a credit card at a station - having
to leave a $100 deposit, then not having change, or having them take a
large deposit on the Credit Card and not know how to refund it - all
because your payment system does not believe there are people who
are credit-worthy, but do not have Zip codes.
#14
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: DCA/IAD/WAS
Programs: MAR AMB, WOH Explorist, AA EXP, UA 2P
Posts: 2,138
I wish you Americans would be as considerate to us Canadians.
We allow you to use your PINless cards at our gas stations, but you
do not allow us to use our Zip Code-less cards at your gas stations.
It is so frustrating not to be able to use a credit card at a station - having
to leave a $100 deposit, then not having change, or having them take a
large deposit on the Credit Card and not know how to refund it - all
because your payment system does not believe there are people who
are credit-worthy, but do not have Zip codes.
We allow you to use your PINless cards at our gas stations, but you
do not allow us to use our Zip Code-less cards at your gas stations.
It is so frustrating not to be able to use a credit card at a station - having
to leave a $100 deposit, then not having change, or having them take a
large deposit on the Credit Card and not know how to refund it - all
because your payment system does not believe there are people who
are credit-worthy, but do not have Zip codes.
#15
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,275
are at stations very close to airports when returning rental cars, one would
assume that stations would be aware of this problem and post such a
solution. Anyway, I will try to remember to try this next time, as well as the
solution offered by Sopwith above.