Just say "No!" - Drink Testing at some airports
Jan 28, 2010, 7:55 am
#121
Join Date: Aug 2006
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At the checkpoint. It was a prohibited item and was not allowed into the sterile area. Given what was detected, it had the potential to be a threat. A gun is not a threat to anyone, it is the person holding it that is the threat. The gun just makes the threat more dangerous and immediate.
It could have been, but was not. We have different tests for powders.
It could have been, but was not. We have different tests for powders.
My question to TSORon would be... Are you capable of making any change within the organization that you work?
Jan 28, 2010, 9:04 am
#122
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 270
Look at his two posts below. Bolding mine. I highly doubt that he discovered a gun with a test strip.
It would be much more likely that he found a bottle of contact lens solution, and that hydrogen peroxide was the restricted material. The gun just makes a more exciting example.
Please enlighten us, Ron. What item did you personally witness that was "detected" with the test strip at a passenger checkpoint in a non-training situation?
The test strip detected exactly what it was intended to detect. Detected exactly what it was designed to detect. As do the ETD machines, the “puffer” machines, and the FIDO devices. None detect explosives, not one. They all detect specific chemical compounds that are commonly used in explosives, some detect more than others.
So, if they detect what they are designed to detect, is that a false positive? Or do you have a different understanding of the term than the rest of us?
So, if they detect what they are designed to detect, is that a false positive? Or do you have a different understanding of the term than the rest of us?
At the checkpoint. It was a prohibited item and was not allowed into the sterile area. Given what was detected, it had the potential to be a threat. A gun is not a threat to anyone, it is the person holding it that is the threat. The gun just makes the threat more dangerous and immediate.
It could have been, but was not. We have different tests for powders.
It could have been, but was not. We have different tests for powders.
Jan 28, 2010, 10:30 am
#123
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
Does the benefits of the intense TSA'ing really outweigh the discomfort? I know you will argue that 'if we can save just one life it's been all worth it' and you may well be right in that. It just seems - for an outsider - like the TSA are fumbling in the dark for the terrorists and that the terrorists easily outsmarts the TSA if they wanted to.
I think that's what makes the difference from the TSA and the other airport security agencies in the world; the others know that regardless of any efforts we can only stop the terrorists that are more stupid than the security agent. Therefore, there is no need for this excessive testing. Do the obvious screening of course to ensure no guns, knifes or the like are brought on board, but anything other than that is a waste of time and money for everyone, imho.
Good luck with that. The operations that TSA has prevented are the one’s that didn’t happen. The only people who are going to know about them are the one’s planning them, unless they are totally incompetent, and then some other government agency is likely to know and it would not have gone off anyway.
Jan 28, 2010, 10:39 am
#124
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
Personally, no, I am way to far down the food chain to make significant changes. Wouldn’t want to be up there anyway, to many headaches and not enough pay.
Last edited by TSORon; Jan 28, 2010 at 10:41 am Reason: Correcting spelling errors
Jan 28, 2010, 10:57 am
#125
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Jan 28, 2010, 7:45 pm
#126
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
I wish that were true.
When someone comes to the checkpoint waving a flag that says that they are committing a crime, what are we supposed to do? Ignore them? Are they not an inherent threat to the people on the plane? Does not one form of criminal behavior suggest that the individual is capable of more?
I’m not a LEO anymore, and I’m glad of that. I have done my time. But just how smart must one be to be a criminal? We have all heard about the dumb criminal stories, they give us a laugh from time to time when we need it most. Is it really all that smart to get on a plane and smoke in the bathroom, when you have an active warrant? Or come to the checkpoint with a handgun, knowing that the police are already looking for you? Or to put your stash in your bag, right next to your shampoo bottle? Come on, we don’t go looking for the stuff, people are dumb enough on their own without us having to go looking for it.
No, I have no interest in your personal lives, or the lives of any passenger I deal with. I just want my day to go nice and quiet, process my 1k (or more) of people, and go home. The perfect day is when nothing happens. Everyone is happy, no one screams at me or pukes on me, and everyone gets to go where they are headed.
There are many idiots out there that think they will not be caught, or that the laws just don’t apply to them because they are special. These are the folks that you get your stories from, not the run of the mill passenger. The average passenger says good morning when greeted, listens if they don’t know the routine or knows the routine and follows it, and just gets on with life. It’s the bright shinning spots of stupidity that make all the stories, and the stupidity comes from both side of the table.
Welcome to the human race.
When someone comes to the checkpoint waving a flag that says that they are committing a crime, what are we supposed to do? Ignore them? Are they not an inherent threat to the people on the plane? Does not one form of criminal behavior suggest that the individual is capable of more?
I’m not a LEO anymore, and I’m glad of that. I have done my time. But just how smart must one be to be a criminal? We have all heard about the dumb criminal stories, they give us a laugh from time to time when we need it most. Is it really all that smart to get on a plane and smoke in the bathroom, when you have an active warrant? Or come to the checkpoint with a handgun, knowing that the police are already looking for you? Or to put your stash in your bag, right next to your shampoo bottle? Come on, we don’t go looking for the stuff, people are dumb enough on their own without us having to go looking for it.
No, I have no interest in your personal lives, or the lives of any passenger I deal with. I just want my day to go nice and quiet, process my 1k (or more) of people, and go home. The perfect day is when nothing happens. Everyone is happy, no one screams at me or pukes on me, and everyone gets to go where they are headed.
There are many idiots out there that think they will not be caught, or that the laws just don’t apply to them because they are special. These are the folks that you get your stories from, not the run of the mill passenger. The average passenger says good morning when greeted, listens if they don’t know the routine or knows the routine and follows it, and just gets on with life. It’s the bright shinning spots of stupidity that make all the stories, and the stupidity comes from both side of the table.
Welcome to the human race.
Jan 28, 2010, 7:54 pm
#127
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I wish that were true.
When someone comes to the checkpoint waving a flag that says that they are committing a crime, what are we supposed to do? Ignore them? Are they not an inherent threat to the people on the plane? Does not one form of criminal behavior suggest that the individual is capable of more?
I’m not a LEO anymore, and I’m glad of that. I have done my time. But just how smart must one be to be a criminal? We have all heard about the dumb criminal stories, they give us a laugh from time to time when we need it most. Is it really all that smart to get on a plane and smoke in the bathroom, when you have an active warrant? Or come to the checkpoint with a handgun, knowing that the police are already looking for you? Or to put your stash in your bag, right next to your shampoo bottle? Come on, we don’t go looking for the stuff, people are dumb enough on their own without us having to go looking for it.
No, I have no interest in your personal lives, or the lives of any passenger I deal with. I just want my day to go nice and quiet, process my 1k (or more) of people, and go home. The perfect day is when nothing happens. Everyone is happy, no one screams at me or pukes on me, and everyone gets to go where they are headed.
There are many idiots out there that think they will not be caught, or that the laws just don’t apply to them because they are special. These are the folks that you get your stories from, not the run of the mill passenger. The average passenger says good morning when greeted, listens if they don’t know the routine or knows the routine and follows it, and just gets on with life. It’s the bright shinning spots of stupidity that make all the stories, and the stupidity comes from both side of the table.
Welcome to the human race.
When someone comes to the checkpoint waving a flag that says that they are committing a crime, what are we supposed to do? Ignore them? Are they not an inherent threat to the people on the plane? Does not one form of criminal behavior suggest that the individual is capable of more?
I’m not a LEO anymore, and I’m glad of that. I have done my time. But just how smart must one be to be a criminal? We have all heard about the dumb criminal stories, they give us a laugh from time to time when we need it most. Is it really all that smart to get on a plane and smoke in the bathroom, when you have an active warrant? Or come to the checkpoint with a handgun, knowing that the police are already looking for you? Or to put your stash in your bag, right next to your shampoo bottle? Come on, we don’t go looking for the stuff, people are dumb enough on their own without us having to go looking for it.
No, I have no interest in your personal lives, or the lives of any passenger I deal with. I just want my day to go nice and quiet, process my 1k (or more) of people, and go home. The perfect day is when nothing happens. Everyone is happy, no one screams at me or pukes on me, and everyone gets to go where they are headed.
There are many idiots out there that think they will not be caught, or that the laws just don’t apply to them because they are special. These are the folks that you get your stories from, not the run of the mill passenger. The average passenger says good morning when greeted, listens if they don’t know the routine or knows the routine and follows it, and just gets on with life. It’s the bright shinning spots of stupidity that make all the stories, and the stupidity comes from both side of the table.
Welcome to the human race.
Jan 28, 2010, 8:22 pm
#128
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
It all depends on the type of crime.
If I come through the checkpoint offering to sell you scalped tickets to a local concert, is my willingness to break the law (in my municipality, YMMV) regarding ticket scalping a reliable indicator of how much threat I'm likely to pose to the aircraft?
If I come through the checkpoint talking about how cool this DVD is that I illegally copied from a friend, and offering to give you a copy, is my willingness to break copyright law a reliable indicator of how much threat I'm likely to pose to the aircraft?
"Criminal behavior" is far too broad a category. Being a chronic shoplifter doesn't inherently make one more likely to be a murderer. Speeding on the freeway doesn't inherently make one more likely to plot acts of terrorism.
Jan 29, 2010, 10:49 am
#131
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,126
Everyone in the TSA has the ability to make a change. They have a VERY active suggestion system, and it even occasionally generates a useful idea. One of the most recent good one’s was an airside safety course for TSO’s. There are others of course, and of course there are the really dumb one’s. Its all part-in-parcel for a suggestion program, but I personally believe that the TSA has one of the best suggestion systems ever devised.
Personally, no, I am way to far down the food chain to make significant changes. Wouldn’t want to be up there anyway, to many headaches and not enough pay.
Personally, no, I am way to far down the food chain to make significant changes. Wouldn’t want to be up there anyway, to many headaches and not enough pay.
Jan 29, 2010, 10:57 am
#132
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,956
Jan 29, 2010, 1:15 pm
#134
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
What is a terrorist, anyway? Criminal? Freedom fighter? Bogeyman?
Taken in the context in which I suppose you meant pose your question, I do consider them "nothing more than criminals".
Even if we define terrorist as one who has committed acts of terrorism, terrorism is in the eye of the beholder. Quoting and paraphrasing John Gilmore's "Gilmore v. Ashcroft -- FAA ID challenge FAQ": Who is a terrorist? A previously convicted hijacker? A card-carrying member of Al-Queda? A Green Party member, who seeks to change our established form of government? Someone on probation, convicted of non-violent civil disobedience for protesting the Star Wars program at Vandenberg Air Force Base? A member of Earth First? Any IRA member from the last twenty years? A member of the Irgun (led by former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin)? Nelson Mandela, imprisoned for sabotage for 27 years by the South African government? A WTO protester? The U.S. Government killed more Afghani civilians from July, 2001 until July, 2002, than the number of Americans killed on 9/11; does that make U.S. soldiers terrorists? Israel and Palestine each claim that the other is terrorist. So do India and Pakistan. So do leftists and rightists in Colombia. Ultimately, the line between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" is a political one.
Jan 29, 2010, 1:27 pm
#135
Join Date: Dec 2009
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