samosa

Yeah but this is a safety thing. Why don't people with long legs buy the seat in front of them? Why don't people with carseats just buy first class seats? Really as seat pitch has declined so has the amount of space for carseats and of course carseats have gotten bigger. It is a balance but when I have flown with one the seat in front reclines, but only partially. Whose space is it? Well I know the knee defender arguments and don't think this is the right place for that. However, if there was a kid behind me and parents paid for a seat (not free and happened to be empty), I wouldn't complain if I could not recline.

MSPeconomist

How does another passenger verify whether the parents have or have not paid for a seat for a child under age two?

samosa

I don't mean it like that, but I think that if a parent has paid for a seat they should be able to get the basic use out of it. But if there are 5 open seats on the plane and the GA and FA allow a carseat on board for a lap child, then I am less understanding. But by no way do I suggest they should demand a receipt or anything. Just how I view it-- as someone who had a lady yell at us for a seat we paid for because hers would not "fully" recline.

theddo

According to the FAA it's not a big enough safety thing, which makes it a comfort thing all-round.

samosa

Did you know that the safest place for your child on an airplane is in a government-approved child safety restraint system (CRS) or device, not on your lap? Your arms aren't capable of holding your child securely, especially during unexpected turbulence.
http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/

A lot of things aren't a "big enough safety thing" but are still very dangerous like guns, drugs, alcohol, smoking, etc. Some people choose to be extra cautious and pay to avoid these dangerous things.

CDTraveler

Unless the kid's seat is in your assigned seat, I don't think it is any business of the other passengers. Allocation of seats is a business deal between passenger and airline, not passenger and passenger. More than few times I had to show the FA proof that we had paid for the seat occupied by kid and carseat, but if another pax had asked me, I would have told them to MYOB.

As for the "right" to recline: I think that ends when it interferes with another passenger's right to use the space they paid for in a safe manner.

Oh, and holding a lap child is really a variation on Russian roulette. Maybe your flight will be perfectly smooth and problem free, or maybe you'll hit clear air turbulence and the kid will go flying - seen that happen and it wasn't pretty.

samosa

Exactly-- it's a balance and not a bright line rule. I understand your concern about not wanting to show another pax a receipt but if someone had a problem, I wouldn't hesitate to say sorry you can't fully recline, but my kid's safety is important, we paid for this seat let's try to get you reclined as much as possible while not having the kid's carseat go vertical and him hanging out of it.

I am sure 10 years ago I probably would have felt different, but times have changed. I still remember being pissed off on an AS flight many years ago where my seat could not recline because it was in front of exit row. In hindsight I shouldn't have been pissed because there is a safety reason behind it.

theddo

Yes, I do. Since the FAA has elected to not require you to purchase such a seat it isn't important enough to them.

It is presumably safer for a fat person to sit in their two seats as compared with half of your's, too. Does that mean they shouldn't pay for it?

cestmoi123

You're misinterpreting (whether intentionally or not). The FAA makes it very clear that a child is safer in a carseat on a plane than in a lap.

The reason they don't REQUIRE carseats is that, if you require them, more people will drive (because of the cost of buying an extra seat), and a child is safer on a lap in the plane than in a carseat in a car.

The FAA is definitely NOT saying that it's not better for a child on a plane to be in a carseat than in a lap.

Zooter

These parents need to take this Consumerist article and go crazy promoting it on social media.

s0ssos

How is a rear-facing seat different than a front-facing, for an airplane? As in, how is it safer?

cestmoi123

Because, when/if you hit something, the g-forces are pushing you into the seat, not away from it, into the straps.

Planes would be (marginally) safer if the seats faced the rear of the plane, but people generally find that uncomfortable, so it's not done.

The incremental safety benefit of being rear-facing vs. front-facing for an airplane carseat is minimal, though.

s0ssos

My question is why people want to put their carseat on a plane rear-facing when it does not matter? It is not a car. You usually do not have direct impact.
And dangerous turbulence is extremely rare as well.

cestmoi123

Personally, I wouldn't put it rear-facing.

We always used carseats on a plane for a combination of safety and sanity. Were forward-facing even while the kids were rear-facing in the car.

MrTemporal

Well, in the case being discussed the person bought a seat with a certain amount of legroom and a certain amount of recline. He/she is just asking for what they paid for. Nothing more. FWIW, many people with long legs now purchase so called Economy Plus seats that do provide more legroom.

This really depends on many factors including the length of the flight. Not being able to recline for 30 minutes on a puddle jumping flight is probably acceptable to most people. Not being able to recline on an 4+ hour flight is another matter.

It's not wrong to expect parents to evaluate how their child would impact other people. As a parent, I do that all the time. That's why I don't bring a 2 year old to dine with me at a fancy restaurant, and why I would not let a 5 year old play a loud game 2 feet away from other people while waiting at the gate.

I am sure with a little civility people can work these things out. The problem occurs when people expect others to automatically yield to their expectations or else!

IMHO, the real fault lies with the airlines who have reduced personal space to such a small amount that they have pitted their customers against each other in a fight for space.