Reports of increased stops of Westerners in certain Bangkok police jurisdictions
Dec 4, 2014, 8:53 am
#31
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And still more:
http://bangkok.coconuts.co//2014/12/...ourists-expats
Becoming pretty obvious this is indeed happening.
http://bangkok.coconuts.co//2014/12/...ourists-expats
Becoming pretty obvious this is indeed happening.
I find it interesting that the accompanying article refers to stops in "Thong Lor and Lupini", misspelling "Lumpini" just like the other links that have been posted. Bottom line, they're all using one source. Even the article notes that the police are *not* stopping people at random, that they stop when there is probable cause.
While I appreciate the chutzpah of the chap who took that video, you can see one of these two Royal Thai Policeman staring down the photographer, I would strongly discourage filming Thai police as you may suffer potentially extreme consequences. It could be interpreted as causing unhappiness.
I assume they may have backed off harassing this tourist as they knew they were being photographed?
Another good piece of advice in this article: never, ever sign any documents which the Police are encouraging you to sign. It doesn't matter if you subsequently claim you didn't understand them, they will be used against you, and you can't do a thing about it.
I would also take exception to this statement in that article:
Although Thailand is operating under the emergency provisions of Martial Law, that only applies to the Army and its soldiers – not the police force.
as I am certain this is incorrect. All powers extend to civilians under the behest of the Military, section 6.
I assume they may have backed off harassing this tourist as they knew they were being photographed?
Another good piece of advice in this article: never, ever sign any documents which the Police are encouraging you to sign. It doesn't matter if you subsequently claim you didn't understand them, they will be used against you, and you can't do a thing about it.
I would also take exception to this statement in that article:
Although Thailand is operating under the emergency provisions of Martial Law, that only applies to the Army and its soldiers – not the police force.
as I am certain this is incorrect. All powers extend to civilians under the behest of the Military, section 6.
Dec 4, 2014, 3:25 pm
#32
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I have been randomly searched on Suk 63 before at night. Scared the crap out of me. I was just walking back to my hotel.
Just the other week I was in a taxi on Sukhumvit and went through a police checkpoint. I dont speak Thai, so I have no idea what was happening.
Just the other week I was in a taxi on Sukhumvit and went through a police checkpoint. I dont speak Thai, so I have no idea what was happening.
Dec 4, 2014, 4:40 pm
#33
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Thanks for all the constructive input. I've decided to cancel my New Year's trip to Bangkok. I've been there a dozen times and I love the city, but I can't support these practices. And while on vacation I shouldn't have extra stress and worry. Have never been to Siem Reap so may head there instead.
Dec 4, 2014, 6:07 pm
#34
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The video shows cops searching a bag. It doesn't show why.
I find it interesting that the accompanying article refers to stops in "Thong Lor and Lupini", misspelling "Lumpini" just like the other links that have been posted. Bottom line, they're all using one source. Even the article notes that the police are *not* stopping people at random, that they stop when there is probable cause.
I find it interesting that the accompanying article refers to stops in "Thong Lor and Lupini", misspelling "Lumpini" just like the other links that have been posted. Bottom line, they're all using one source. Even the article notes that the police are *not* stopping people at random, that they stop when there is probable cause.
And no, the article does not say that police are stopping when there is probable cause - it states that's what they are supposed to do. Clearly, they are not.
Care to explain my own experience in post #9 of this thread? Or crazyinteg's experience detailed two posts ago?
[redacted]
Last edited by aBroadAbroad; Dec 9, 2014 at 12:36 pm Reason: let's be less inflammatory, argumentative, accusatory, etc.
Dec 4, 2014, 6:21 pm
#35
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The stop and search in the video looked random to me, and the only probable cause I could discern was that the gentleman was a foreigner.
Notice the Thais walking by, anxious and pleased that someone else is getting stopped so they're not getting hassled.
And the police looked to me as if they knew they were being filmed and that what they were doing was probably outside the norm.
I think that there is absolutely no question that there has been a recent increase in these stops. Whether it is confined to a single police district (Thong Lor) or several is unclear.
The only way it will stop is if enough people complain, and post on social media.
This is one of my favorite RTP videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4-hsknqPI
I recently asked a neighbor why so many people have dash-cams here, and he laughed, and answered: Police.
Notice the Thais walking by, anxious and pleased that someone else is getting stopped so they're not getting hassled.
And the police looked to me as if they knew they were being filmed and that what they were doing was probably outside the norm.
I think that there is absolutely no question that there has been a recent increase in these stops. Whether it is confined to a single police district (Thong Lor) or several is unclear.
The only way it will stop is if enough people complain, and post on social media.
This is one of my favorite RTP videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB4-hsknqPI
I recently asked a neighbor why so many people have dash-cams here, and he laughed, and answered: Police.
Last edited by transpac; Dec 4, 2014 at 7:51 pm
Dec 4, 2014, 6:28 pm
#36
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I have been to Bangkok countless times and love it. I stay around Asoke and use the Terminal 21 Mall often. However, this seems too close to home. I was due to go for New Years but think I will cancel. I have another trip for June planned, but will reconsider as things go along. This is really too bad becuase it does hurt the tourist industry and thus employment for people.
Dec 4, 2014, 6:55 pm
#37
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"The only way it will stop is if enough people complain, and post on social media."... Maybe. Media pressure killed the 'King Power shoplifting scam', but others like the 'jet ski scam' & the 'Patpong upstairs drink scams' remain remarkably persistent to bad pub.
Last edited by whackyjacky; Dec 4, 2014 at 7:18 pm
Dec 4, 2014, 7:36 pm
#38
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[redacted]
Let me try again. The original post made 2 important points that I disagreed with.
First was that the police were pulling over taxis with foreigners inside for no reason and subjecting them to searches and urine tests.
Second was that it is common. "Routinely" in the original post. "Common" in the other article.
Those were my objections. No one has posted an example of a taxi being pulled over at random, for no cause, and the foreigner subjected to a urine test. Not one.
Is there an occasional negative event in Thailand? Of course. Just as in the US, or Canada, or Australia or anywhere else. Is it "common". Absolutely no evidence to justify that claim. Are they pulling over taxis and subjected foreigners to urine tests? Again, no evidence to justify that claim.
If you or anyone else has concrete evidence of taxis being pulled over for no reason other than a foreigner was inside, foreigner pulled out and subjected to a urine test, and it happening often enough to be labelled "common" or "routine" I'm happy to change my mind. Again, that was the original claim. In a taxi. No reason for the stop. Urine test. Happens routinely. But as I posted before, incredible claims require incredible proof and I've yet to see anyone post even one example, let alone enough examples to label it "common".
Let me try again. The original post made 2 important points that I disagreed with.
First was that the police were pulling over taxis with foreigners inside for no reason and subjecting them to searches and urine tests.
Second was that it is common. "Routinely" in the original post. "Common" in the other article.
Those were my objections. No one has posted an example of a taxi being pulled over at random, for no cause, and the foreigner subjected to a urine test. Not one.
Is there an occasional negative event in Thailand? Of course. Just as in the US, or Canada, or Australia or anywhere else. Is it "common". Absolutely no evidence to justify that claim. Are they pulling over taxis and subjected foreigners to urine tests? Again, no evidence to justify that claim.
If you or anyone else has concrete evidence of taxis being pulled over for no reason other than a foreigner was inside, foreigner pulled out and subjected to a urine test, and it happening often enough to be labelled "common" or "routine" I'm happy to change my mind. Again, that was the original claim. In a taxi. No reason for the stop. Urine test. Happens routinely. But as I posted before, incredible claims require incredible proof and I've yet to see anyone post even one example, let alone enough examples to label it "common".
Last edited by aBroadAbroad; Dec 9, 2014 at 12:41 pm Reason: let's be less inflammatory, argumentative, accusatory, etc.
Dec 4, 2014, 10:20 pm
#39
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While you were canceling I was booking out my spring. Yes, I'm a bit more uneasy than usual but never feel as safe and comfortable as I do in Japan.
A new place is always nice. I guess it depends on your activity pattern in BKK.
I'm a *wood guy. This is very close to home for me too. However I like to sit at the pool all day. Never seen a brown suit at the SGS. I will definitely try to minimize street time, use the skywalks and BTS as much as possible and avoid being oblivious to my surroundings.
-Scho
I have been to Bangkok countless times and love it. I stay around Asoke and use the Terminal 21 Mall often. However, this seems too close to home. I was due to go for New Years but think I will cancel. I have another trip for June planned, but will reconsider as things go along. This is really too bad becuase it does hurt the tourist industry and thus employment for people.
-Scho
Last edited by schoflyer; Dec 5, 2014 at 12:13 am
Dec 5, 2014, 12:35 am
#40
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As of now, my impression is that this would be far less risk than heading to BKK and staying around Asoke than during the RedShirt protests or the Shut down.
Those events were not within my personal tolerance zone. I avoided BKK. Others did not.
Coupled with my pattern in the City of bed, breakfast, pool, happy hour, bed....this situation seems manageable to me but, we all know however how fluid the situation there can be. Make good decisions wherever you are and you'll likely be fine.
Those events were not within my personal tolerance zone. I avoided BKK. Others did not.
Coupled with my pattern in the City of bed, breakfast, pool, happy hour, bed....this situation seems manageable to me but, we all know however how fluid the situation there can be. Make good decisions wherever you are and you'll likely be fine.
Dec 5, 2014, 9:02 am
#41
Join Date: May 2010
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I have been to Bangkok countless times and love it. I stay around Asoke and use the Terminal 21 Mall often. However, this seems too close to home. I was due to go for New Years but think I will cancel. I have another trip for June planned, but will reconsider as things go along. This is really too bad becuase it does hurt the tourist industry and thus employment for people.
The chances of being pickpocketed in Rome are much greater. The chances of being in a car accident in Korea are probably greater than the chances of being stopped in BKK.
But everybody has their own level of comfort, and while this issue for me is really a non-starter, I am sure that there would be things that would concern me in other countries which would not faze others on this board.
Vacations are meant to be vacations - if a situation is such that it will cause you more stress than not being on vacation, then it definitely is not worth it to come.
Bottom line - random searches should not be happening and hopefully will be but a memory in the near future.
Dec 5, 2014, 12:07 pm
#42
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My random search experience hasn't caused me to change any travel plans to Thailand, but due to the political situation, new policies, crime/violence reports, etc., I scaled the Thailand portion of my trip way down. I stayed for a longer period in Vietnam and went to Malaysia for my first time.
I had no problems in Thailand and it seemed to be much calmer and relaxed compared to previous trips to the kingdom.
Also, I think I prefer United's food in economy over ANA's. Nothing I can do about that though.
I had no problems in Thailand and it seemed to be much calmer and relaxed compared to previous trips to the kingdom.
Also, I think I prefer United's food in economy over ANA's. Nothing I can do about that though.
Dec 5, 2014, 7:02 pm
#43
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There is a lot of speculation on both Thai and foreign social media re: this increase in stop/search focused solely on foreigners. A neighbor owns several bars in the entertainment zones and he confirms that there is absolutely an increase in stop searches over the last few weeks. He has thousands of foreign customers whom he speaks with in any given week.
I’ve seen/heard reference to:
1.) The new national police chief (selected by the Military dictatorship) is a fan of “broken window policing” and this is his program.
2.) There is a factional turf-war between select elements of the RTP and the RTA, and this flare-up is meant to strike back at the factions which support the RTA, and hurt them re: hurting tourism, in an effort to return happiness to the RTP.
3.) Police promotions cost 3 ~ 5 million baht (this figure was published as a result of the recent scandal), money has been borrowed, paid and needs to be paid back. Many of the conventional income sources have been restricted.
4.) In the run-up to the 5 Dec. holiday, efforts were made to clean up the less desirable influences (drugs).
In my neighborhood we have two senior police officials (roi tamruad eg, and phan tamruad eg), and my inquiries to intermediaries (relatives) is that yes, there is something going on, but no, they (relatives) do not have the details.
Again, the fear of an infinitesimally small chance of experiencing a brief stop/search is not a reason to cancel a trip. Supporting a military dictatorship, in a country where Marshall Law, and a woeful record on slavery and human trafficking, remains in force might be a reason for some.
[off-topic, split to general discussion thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23968956-post908.html]
I’ve seen/heard reference to:
1.) The new national police chief (selected by the Military dictatorship) is a fan of “broken window policing” and this is his program.
2.) There is a factional turf-war between select elements of the RTP and the RTA, and this flare-up is meant to strike back at the factions which support the RTA, and hurt them re: hurting tourism, in an effort to return happiness to the RTP.
3.) Police promotions cost 3 ~ 5 million baht (this figure was published as a result of the recent scandal), money has been borrowed, paid and needs to be paid back. Many of the conventional income sources have been restricted.
4.) In the run-up to the 5 Dec. holiday, efforts were made to clean up the less desirable influences (drugs).
In my neighborhood we have two senior police officials (roi tamruad eg, and phan tamruad eg), and my inquiries to intermediaries (relatives) is that yes, there is something going on, but no, they (relatives) do not have the details.
Again, the fear of an infinitesimally small chance of experiencing a brief stop/search is not a reason to cancel a trip. Supporting a military dictatorship, in a country where Marshall Law, and a woeful record on slavery and human trafficking, remains in force might be a reason for some.
[off-topic, split to general discussion thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23968956-post908.html]
Last edited by aBroadAbroad; Dec 9, 2014 at 1:13 pm
Dec 6, 2014, 11:05 pm
#44
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Dec 7, 2014, 1:42 am
#45
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@RichardBarrow is having a field day with the Tetsakit near Suk 15.
Check out his tweets
He cruising for Stop & Search between Thong Lo and Asoke.
Check out his tweets
He cruising for Stop & Search between Thong Lo and Asoke.
Last edited by schoflyer; Dec 7, 2014 at 1:52 am