Mikel at Webflyer

This question was submitted by ElmhurstNick:

"Describe a concept which you like from another major industry/hobby board (not particularly travel-related), and which you believe would enhance the FT experience."

doc

FWIW, while FT is wonderful. I do like the idea of being able to discuss all matters, including moderation, just as long as the contributing posters are always respectful and civil as we see here on "flyerchat."

Mark

John C

While I like many of the folks who are active at the other site mentioned and mean no disrespect to them, I must confess that starting a secondary site with an intentionally copycat name that focuses largely on discussing this site seems cliquish to me and I have a hard time seeing how spawning such sub-communities is in the best interest of this site and this community. While I do not believe you can realistically prevent such things, I would never point to any such site as a positive for FT.

Returning to the main question, I would point to DiamondTalk as a potential site for obtaining some lessons learned. Like here, that site is quite large and has seen its share of growth related challenges. And I would never suggest that it is "better" at what it does than FT is in its niche - if anything I actually believe that FT has been FAR more successful in building a quality membership (while DT is primarily a marketing tool for subscribing vendors). But there are a few capabilities there that I believe might be valuable.

To start, they have wonderful polling capabilities that I believe are used quite effectively. I believe FT could collect broader experiences and opinions through the use of polls and I would love to see these types of tools employed. Forums are invaluable at capturing the depth of feelings on an issue, but polls are best when measuring the breadth of opinion. How does the community as a whole believe the different programs rate against one another? Who has the best products? When changes are announced, how does the membership feel about them? And after they have been in place for a while how might that opinion chance? How many programs are people active in? How many have changed programs in the last year and of those, how many found that the grass truly was greener versus how many find themselves again disappointed? These are all questions that I personally find quite interesting and that I think would provide information other might find useful as well. Furthermore, as we begin to capture these experiences and provide data that is actually useful to the industry as a whole, I think we might find more corporate representatives participating, or at a minimum, listening. And that allows us not only to exchange information among ourselves, but also to better influence the industry itself.

The other tool I like at DT is the shopping bar. It allows people to search for a diamond from the site and I am sure it is a revenue producer. How many people read about a fare or a deal and run to go check prices and availability? I haven't thought through the details so I'm the first to admit this is an on-the-fly half-baked concept, but what if FT partnered with a firm (Orbitz, Travelocity, whoever) to allow you to enter city pairs and dates and then look up low fares directly? With only minimal usage, I suspect that it could be a real revenue producer for the site that could help pay the bills that make this resource available to all of us.

EDIT: Edited by request to remove links and references to other sites.

VPescado

One thing comes to mind immediately: Allowing posters to retain ownership (ie. copyright) of their posts. I mentioned this in my platform. Most other websites have policies that give the site the right to publish the content of posts, while allowing the posters to retain copyright to the posts. FlyerTalk's Terms of Service gives full ownership to FT. This is not only unfair, it will limit the contributions that FT gets.

BTW, I love this question. It challanges all of us to make FT a better place.

I'll post more ideas when they come to me.

I invite members who aren't running to do some thinking about this as well.

NOLAnwGOLD

Forthe most part, the update to the FT system giving better search, data-based driven real-time info (eg the number of posts each person has), the dynamic nature of the forums (eg when you know there is something new in a thread), the ability to personalize your posts with bolding and ^ , and the PM or email options to contact a member, etc...In general a great sophisticated site.

I'm not sure if polling would be more useful (there is one on the homepage, but often bypassed to the forums page). It could be fun, but of course not reliable for anything truly scientific. However, this could be looked at more formally.

Picture posting might be of some use as well. It might create need for storage space and again needs monitoring but at this point we have to refer to other sites for an illustration. Some might want to put a pic for their profile which might be fun and more real....granted I"m sure some people want to stay very anonymous.

I'm quite sure there are some other things but not right off the top of my mind

Cholula

I'd like to see more bells and whistles added back to the FlyerTalk site. We've had both the reputation and the thread rating features turned off due to abuse by a handful of individuals. And we also lost the ability to use signatures for awhile due to the same reason. It's my contention that you deal with the individuals who abuse these features rather than shut down the whole feature.
Many sites allow avatars and image uploading which some feel adds to the overall fun and experience with the site. And some IBB's have a much larger range of "smilies" from which to choose. I'm a bit ambivalent about this regarding FT and I'll explain why in a minute.
I know we have allowed image uploading in a couple of FT forums and I'd like to see this feature expanded. Perhaps allowing one thread in each Forum where images apropos to the Forum would be allowed. A picture of a new aircraft, a picture of a room a X hotel, etc. Not sure if our BB software allows images in just select threads.
I do think that there needs to be some definite controls over the use of avatars, images and smilies...especially those that show activity.
Like this: or this:

I would NOT want to see these type of "smilies" on FT because the message is of utmost importance on FT and this stuff is more than a bit distracting IMO.
You can definitely have too much of a good thing and excessive use of these active smilies/avatars detracts from the overall FT experience.
I'm not actively campaigning on expanding the FT bells and whistles as I don't feel real passionate on the subject. Just answering this question with some thoughts and ideas from other websites.

stimpy

I've been on the "net" since the 80's and I can only think of one other board that has both the knowledge and community value that this board has. And that board ran on DEC Notes which isn't a viable option here I don't think.

One cool feature we have on that system is the "phone" option. It was really a chat system that came a decade or two before the chat that most people use today. It would be neat if we could do that on Flyertalk. When you click on someones name, you get a dropdown list of ways to contact that person. Chat would be good to add. And while we're at it, integrate Skype and then we can actually talk to each other in realtime. That should also help eliminate a lot of misunderstandings.

nsx

My favorite car club's forum also uses vBulletin software and includes two features that would really enhace the FT experience:

1. Avatars, optional images limited to 150x150 pixels, that users can upload to be displayed with their handles. This humanizes the interaction, especially when people upload baby photos or pictures of their favorite film characters.

2. Ability to subscribe for email notification of new posts to a particular threads. This way you can keep track of interesting topics with minimal expenditure of your time and Randy's money (bandwidth). I described this in my platform.

Some features on that forum are not applicable to FT:

3. Posting photos is probably not warranted for FT, except for Trip Reports, where people who write all the words really ought to be able to add photos.

4. Regional forums are useful for a car club where you want to plan group events or just a show and tell meeting, but FTers don't have anything in common to show and tell except travel experiences, and the existing boards are fine for that.

FewMiles

nsx, I believe you can subscribe to individual threads and get instant e-mail notification. Just click Thread tools / Subscribe to this thread.

Also IIRC, the image feature is currently enabled for the Trip Reports forum, at least on a trial basis. I've seen many trip reports that have made use of this feature and it really adds to the report.

FewMiles..

peteropny

I subscribe to the theory that simpler is often better. That said, some additional features should be considered if there's a demand. However, a lot of factors need to be considered ("bad" usage by mischevious individuals, demands on server capacity and bandwidth etc).

ozstamps

The author of anything owns copyright unless he is paid for exclusivity or waives his right to it in writing. I have been a journalist, editor, and publisher all my working life, and that is a fact. Whether here or in Europe or the USA.

Write and submit a short story about your dog, or your holiday, your upgrade hell, or your sex life and send that to Reader's Digest. They will tell you if they publish it, and pay you $5,000, they'll then own exclusive copyright if you agree to that deal. THEN you have in effect sold or assigned the copyright away.

Anything you type yourself you own. Period. If I type a trip Report and post it here I am legally free to post it or sell it anywhere I wish at a later date. From over 25,000 FT posts only a minuscule handful would have been posted outside FT, but it remains my legal right to do so should I choose. If Randy sends me $1 a post they are all his for perpetuity.

FTs says they'd like for 'simplicity' to say they own copyright over what is published here. Nice concept, but there is no legal right whatever they have for that claim IMHO over anything I type. The accumulated contents of an active thread etc is of course a quite separate issue, as no single person types it all. The "entity" is a creation then effectively owned - and created - by Flyertalk. And one they have a rock solid right of claim over. Randy raised this recently with me re the very controversial Tireflock thread and he was 100% correct - I agree.

When Tireflock.com was closed down after publishing private FT PM's I decided to stand for this election. I wish that thread was required reading for every member that votes. @:-)

PM's sent via FT resources are also arguably copyright etc. Less precise and clear protection, but they'd have a good claim over that IMHO.

Copyright© is generally very simple in concept really.

A grey area is where say the WSJ night take a quote or report off FT from someone with a real name as a handle and publish it - OttoGraham or MatthewClement or MattWald as an instance. I do not know of a case where that kind of 3rd party use has created an issue, and most members would have no problem with it I am sure. I certainly would not. But legally it is a potential grey area.

mbstone

Slashdot, the pre-eminent techie news site. "News for nerds, stuff that matters."

-- "All comments are owned by the Poster."

-- Moderators are selected at random and given five "moderation points."

Moderators can award +1 point to a comment thought to be "Interesting," "Insightful," "Informative," or "Funny." Moderators can also award -1 point if a comment is thought to be "Offtopic," "Troll" or "Flamebait."

-- Anyone can MetaModerate (vote on whether a Moderator's decision on a comment is "fair" or "unfair." Moderators who get too many "unfair" votes get to moderate less often.

-- Comments can ultimately receive a score from -1 to +5.

-- Users can set the point threshold (-1 to +5) for comments they wish to view.

-- Posters may post as "Anonymous Cowards."

Cholula

I think zero consideration should be given to the possibility that "mischievious" individuals will misuse a feature.
These individuals should be summarily suspended for life....and life means life by my definition....and let the 99.99% of those who don't abuse these features enjoy them.
It's not difficult to identify the bad actors here on FlyerTalk. What seems to be difficult is to enforce any sort of meaningful penalty.

John C

While I agree with you in principle, in practice you must give some consideration to the potential of abuse. If we just gave everyone full admin rights on the theory that we'd ban those who abused the power, we'd have a total mess on our hands. In practice you have to weigh both the likelihood and (more importantly) the impact of abuse when making decisions about what to allow. I absolutely agree that you do not want to allow a few bad apples to spoil things for everyone and that you must impose discipline to maintain the proper atmosphere, but you must always accept that there will always be a few bad apples and proper planning demands that you limit the damage that they can cause.

Cholula

I don't suggest we go into this thinking that nobody will abuse any new features. Or that we hand the inmates the keys to the asylum.
As sure as the sun rises in the East there will be a select group of bad apples that try to abuse any new features.
And many of these bad apples are well known here on FlyerTalk. And some have positions of responsibility on FlyerTalk.
Yet they still post here on a daily basis.
And decisions on new features are carefully considered in case "somebody" will abuse the features.
Many of these "somebodies" are already known entities.
I propose a zero tolerance policy to include Randy Petersen right down to the newbie poster who registered 10 minutes ago.
You abuse the features on FlyerTalk, you're outta here in a New York minute.
No appeal, no excuses, no second, third or fourth chances.
Who would stand in judgement of those folks accused of abusing the system??
This gets a little dicey and I'm open to suggestions from those who think this has merit.
Perhaps a group of FlyerTalk members who, to avoid any charge of bias, are not moderators or TB members but who are elected or appointed by their peers. Folks who are known for their impartiality, objectivity and fairness. And I know many who would fit that bill.
I'm not suggesting that we can cure all the abuse in this BB or any other overnight. But at some point, we need to address this situation rather than avoiding it.