Flight delayed due to too much fuel
May 3, 2012, 6:30 am
#1
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Flight delayed due to too much fuel
Sitting on WN 1193 BWI-ORF 8:15 departure they boarded us early because it was a light flight and thought we could get out early. But, someone was asleep at the switch and loaded 44k pounds of fuel. Captain said we could fly to South America. Scheduled flight is 35 mins at 16k feet. Unloading fuel now.
While I was typing this post-on the plane waiting -wn called to alert me of the delay.
How many points should I ask for? 15k min? Before I get flamed I am just kidding. Its only a 30 min delay.
While I was typing this post-on the plane waiting -wn called to alert me of the delay.
How many points should I ask for? 15k min? Before I get flamed I am just kidding. Its only a 30 min delay.
May 3, 2012, 12:47 pm
#3
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,028
Sitting on WN 1193 BWI-ORF 8:15 departure they boarded us early because it was a light flight and thought we could get out early. But, someone was asleep at the switch and loaded 44k pounds of fuel. Captain said we could fly to South America. Scheduled flight is 35 mins at 16k feet. Unloading fuel now.
The reason weight becomes an issue is because aircraft have multiple weight limitations, all of which must be observed. The main two are max takeoff weight (MTOW) and maximum landing weight (MLW). The MTOW is always higher than the MLW, since the design engineers factor-in that MTOW considers the weight of all the fuel being carried that gets the aircraft to the destination, where, naturally, you'd have consumed that fuel and be landing at MLW.
As an example, let's assume that the MTOW at BWI is 140,000 lbs. and the MLW (landing anywhere) is 120,000 lbs., and that it takes 5,000 lbs of fuel to fly BWI-ORF. If one loaded up the flight at BWI such that it weighed 140,000 lbs. it'd be able to get off the ground OK, but after consuming the 5,000 lbs. to get to ORF, the aircraft would arrive weighing 135,000 lbs., or some 15,000 lbs. over the MLW. The way to prevent this is to limit the MTOW by the MLW, or in this case, a 120,000 lb MLW plus the 5,000 which equals 125,000 lbs. Even though the aircraft could get 140,000 lbs off the runway at BWI, limiting the MTOW to 125,000 ensures you'll arrive ORF at 120,000 lbs.
If your aircraft had been originally scheduled for a longer flight that would have used 20,000 lbs. of fuel to get to its destination, the two weights would have been the same (140,000 MTOW versus 120,000 MLW plus 20,000) and thus no weight issue. Once reassigned to a shorter flight after having already been fueled, it can be a problem.
If you were only :30 late due to defueling, it doesn't sound like they were overweight by much (was this a -300 or -700?), but in any event, sorry you had a delay..
May 3, 2012, 12:55 pm
#4
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SAT
Posts: 373
Thanks OPNLguy! I love your explanations, but can't help being reminded of word problems in math class back in grade school when a train left Chicago at 2:00 pm at 60mph... I knew that stuff would help someone someday. I guess that's you!
I knew that stuff would help someone someday. I guess that's you!
May 3, 2012, 4:04 pm
#5
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What usually happens to create a situation like this isn't that the aircraft gets overfueled, per se, but that the aircraft was fueled for a previous flight, say, BWI-PHX, that was of longer duration than BWI-ORF. If the aircraft was going BWI-PHX but then had a mechanical issue that grounded it, a new aircraft would have been utilized for BWI-PHX. Once the original aircraft came back into service, and it gets plugged back into the schedule but on a shorter flight (like BWI-ORF) it could have had too much fuel onboard, requiring some to be offloaded.
The reason weight becomes an issue is because aircraft have multiple weight limitations, all of which must be observed. The main two are max takeoff weight (MTOW) and maximum landing weight (MLW). The MTOW is always higher than the MLW, since the design engineers factor-in that MTOW considers the weight of all the fuel being carried that gets the aircraft to the destination, where, naturally, you'd have consumed that fuel and be landing at MLW.
As an example, let's assume that the MTOW at BWI is 140,000 lbs. and the MLW (landing anywhere) is 120,000 lbs., and that it takes 5,000 lbs of fuel to fly BWI-ORF. If one loaded up the flight at BWI such that it weighed 140,000 lbs. it'd be able to get off the ground OK, but after consuming the 5,000 lbs. to get to ORF, the aircraft would arrive weighing 135,000 lbs., or some 15,000 lbs. over the MLW. The way to prevent this is to limit the MTOW by the MLW, or in this case, a 120,000 lb MLW plus the 5,000 which equals 125,000 lbs. Even though the aircraft could get 140,000 lbs off the runway at BWI, limiting the MTOW to 125,000 ensures you'll arrive ORF at 120,000 lbs.
If your aircraft had been originally scheduled for a longer flight that would have used 20,000 lbs. of fuel to get to its destination, the two weights would have been the same (140,000 MTOW versus 120,000 MLW plus 20,000) and thus no weight issue. Once reassigned to a shorter flight after having already been fueled, it can be a problem.
If you were only :30 late due to defueling, it doesn't sound like they were overweight by much (was this a -300 or -700?), but in any event, sorry you had a delay..
The reason weight becomes an issue is because aircraft have multiple weight limitations, all of which must be observed. The main two are max takeoff weight (MTOW) and maximum landing weight (MLW). The MTOW is always higher than the MLW, since the design engineers factor-in that MTOW considers the weight of all the fuel being carried that gets the aircraft to the destination, where, naturally, you'd have consumed that fuel and be landing at MLW.
As an example, let's assume that the MTOW at BWI is 140,000 lbs. and the MLW (landing anywhere) is 120,000 lbs., and that it takes 5,000 lbs of fuel to fly BWI-ORF. If one loaded up the flight at BWI such that it weighed 140,000 lbs. it'd be able to get off the ground OK, but after consuming the 5,000 lbs. to get to ORF, the aircraft would arrive weighing 135,000 lbs., or some 15,000 lbs. over the MLW. The way to prevent this is to limit the MTOW by the MLW, or in this case, a 120,000 lb MLW plus the 5,000 which equals 125,000 lbs. Even though the aircraft could get 140,000 lbs off the runway at BWI, limiting the MTOW to 125,000 ensures you'll arrive ORF at 120,000 lbs.
If your aircraft had been originally scheduled for a longer flight that would have used 20,000 lbs. of fuel to get to its destination, the two weights would have been the same (140,000 MTOW versus 120,000 MLW plus 20,000) and thus no weight issue. Once reassigned to a shorter flight after having already been fueled, it can be a problem.
If you were only :30 late due to defueling, it doesn't sound like they were overweight by much (was this a -300 or -700?), but in any event, sorry you had a delay..
May 3, 2012, 6:33 pm
#6
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Your scenario is completely plausible. However, in this case, they boarded us for an early departure. Based on the announcements and the things happening, it seems like this was found during pre-flight checks. They specificially said they ground crew "over fueled" the plane. No big deal. Just interesting.
Though if it weren't for the overfuel you likely never would have known. And that later flight using your original aircraft likely would have been ontime too. It's a scramble to turn a problem into a win-win. Most times it's a win-win with a lot of work behind the scenes. Juggling aircraft and crews means changing a lot of downline scheduling.
30 mins doesn't sound bad... Scrambling the parked de-fuel tanker truck to the aircraft. Defueling and recalculating weight and balance does take time. And I'm sure everyone working that flight did their best to recover. Best of intentions sometimes go awry with one missed not so little detail.
May 3, 2012, 6:49 pm
#7
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May 3, 2012, 6:56 pm
#8
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OPNLguy probably hit this one dead on. The "early" departure could mean an equipment swap using an aircraft and crew on hand to prevent a delay on your flight due to late arriving inbound or maint issue. It happens not to say often but pretty frequently with all airlines at hubs.
Though if it weren't for the overfuel you likely never would have known. And that later flight using your original aircraft likely would have been ontime too. It's a scramble to turn a problem into a win-win. Most times it's a win-win with a lot of work behind the scenes. Juggling aircraft and crews means changing a lot of downline scheduling.
30 mins doesn't sound bad... Scrambling the parked de-fuel tanker truck to the aircraft. Defueling and recalculating weight and balance does take time. And I'm sure everyone working that flight did their best to recover. Best of intentions sometimes go awry with one missed not so little detail.
Though if it weren't for the overfuel you likely never would have known. And that later flight using your original aircraft likely would have been ontime too. It's a scramble to turn a problem into a win-win. Most times it's a win-win with a lot of work behind the scenes. Juggling aircraft and crews means changing a lot of downline scheduling.
30 mins doesn't sound bad... Scrambling the parked de-fuel tanker truck to the aircraft. Defueling and recalculating weight and balance does take time. And I'm sure everyone working that flight did their best to recover. Best of intentions sometimes go awry with one missed not so little detail.
May 3, 2012, 7:02 pm
#9
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Sitting on WN 1193 BWI-ORF 8:15 departure they boarded us early because it was a light flight and thought we could get out early. But, someone was asleep at the switch and loaded 44k pounds of fuel. Captain said we could fly to South America. Scheduled flight is 35 mins at 16k feet. Unloading fuel now.
While I was typing this post-on the plane waiting -wn called to alert me of the delay.
How many points should I ask for? 15k min? Before I get flamed I am just kidding. Its only a 30 min delay.
While I was typing this post-on the plane waiting -wn called to alert me of the delay.
How many points should I ask for? 15k min? Before I get flamed I am just kidding. Its only a 30 min delay.
May 3, 2012, 9:36 pm
#11
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,028
Your scenario is completely plausible. However, in this case, they boarded us for an early departure. Based on the announcements and the things happening, it seems like this was found during pre-flight checks. They specificially said they ground crew "over fueled" the plane. No big deal. Just interesting.