CO #71 from AMS [June 13, 2007]
Jun 21, 2007, 4:50 am
#31
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
I never understood why the airlines provide such stingy compensation to disserviced pax, while comparatively they provide very generous compensation for VDB. For instance in LAX recently on UA I got $600 in travel vouchers plus hotel for a voluntary bump. I was not upset or disserviced. But look at a situation like this, $115. So why are they so much more generous with VDB and so cheap with any kind of situation that relly might cause some anxiety, inconvenience, and distress?
Compensation in neither instance is a result of some sort of largesse or concern for the passenger, it is all about what the alternative is to the airline.
Jun 21, 2007, 10:04 am
#32
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SRQ-NYC-DCA
Programs: OnePass Infinite CO MM, PC Charter Lifer SkyMiles GM, MileagePlus
Posts: 1,826
VDB Compensation
On any given oversold situation there might be from a few
to several needed seats requiring compensation
A full 76 is WHOLE different kettle of fish
Do the math
Chic
to several needed seats requiring compensation
A full 76 is WHOLE different kettle of fish
Do the math
Chic
Jun 21, 2007, 11:14 am
#33
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Seattle
Programs: Marriott Ambassador LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, United LT Silver
Posts: 1,085
Because, in the case of VDB, they know what the alternative is, since there are rules about how much you have to provide for involuntary bumps. And those rules require cash outlays. It is much cheaper for the airlines to give you a credit and a cheap hotel room.
Compensation in neither instance is a result of some sort of largesse or concern for the passenger, it is all about what the alternative is to the airline.
Compensation in neither instance is a result of some sort of largesse or concern for the passenger, it is all about what the alternative is to the airline.
Jun 21, 2007, 12:17 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 686
CNN Coverage
CNN is covering the story; they have an interview with passenger who couldn't believe how bad it was on the flight. Someone took a picture of a flight attendant serving drinks - wearing a surgical mask and plastic bag on her head. CNN reported that passengers were told not to drink or eat too much; since there was only one working toilet on the plane. Wow. Apparently passengers were offered a coupon for free travel; but this is beyond simply compsensation. I can see a class action lawsuit issue here - exposure to raw sewage for upwards of seven hours - seems more like a settlement. Say, $25k per passenger?
Jun 21, 2007, 1:07 pm
#35
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE
Programs: AA ExPlat; Marriott Plat: Hilton Gold
Posts: 831
What happened was not fun for anyone.
But I think CO has done the best that it can under the circumstances.
What gets my goat is the story is now on FOX News and they are covering with the title, "Fecal Flight."
Give me a break. Just report the damn news.
But I think CO has done the best that it can under the circumstances.
What gets my goat is the story is now on FOX News and they are covering with the title, "Fecal Flight."
Give me a break. Just report the damn news.
Jun 21, 2007, 3:52 pm
#36
Company Representative, United Airlines
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, Houston, or somewhere in between
Posts: 2,176
The flight wheeled off AMS around 2:16pm on 6/13 and we were told that with favorable winds, we would have arrived EWR 30 minutes ahead of schedule. Twenty minutes after wheeled off, ISM informed the passengers that there were problems with all the lavs onboard and they were trying everything they could to fix it. About an hour later, the captain decided to landed at SNN to have the lavs fixed on the ground.
After landing at SNN for about an hour, everyone was given a voucher of 10 Euro for a snack and a sheet stating the EU passenger rights and a customer comment card. We were informed that it might take another hour or two to have the problem fixed. At around 7 or 8 pm local time (we landed around 3pm local time), we were told to go through immigration and go to baggage claim to get our bags as we would stay overnight. About an hour later, the bags finally came out. Some people didn't get their bags as the access to that part of the cargo hold on the plane was blocked by the effort to fix the lavs...
Finally, we all got on buses to hotels. It was after 10pm. Some people (strangers) had to share rooms as there were not enough rooms. I overheard on the next day that a few people were driven around on a bus to three different places and finally got rooms. I think two buses came to the hotel I stayed at. Dinner was served between 10:30pm and 11pm. Announcement (NOT by Continental staff) was made at dinner that wakeup call at 6:45am, continental breakfast at 7:15am and leaving for the airport at 7:45am. BTW, I didn't see any Contitnenal people at the hotel. Room sharing was done through a good fellow passenger annoucing at dinner that some people didn't get rooms and asking for volunteers to share. I am pretty sure BF/Elite passengers didn't get different treatments for hotel accommodations and meals (lining up with everyone for checking into the same hotel).
Got to the airport around 8am (6/14) and we were told 4 out of 6 lavs were fixed and they were trying to get the 2 done. The schedule departure time was set at 12 noon. Everyone lined up for security measure and checking in (BF and Elite did get a different line AFTER the security line and seats were reassigned - not the same seat as yesterday). Some people did get another 10 Euro Voucher here again but I didn't get it. The waiting started. Around 10am, announcement were made that our flight would not went through US immigration ("regular" SNN to US flights clear immigration and custom at SNN) and would be boarded at gate 14 around 11:30am. People started to make the long track towards gate 14 but the area was not accessible as it's not "secure". We were told to go back to the duty free area (more shopping) to wait for another announcement. Finally, we were told to proceed to the gate and went through another security (they just set it up near gate 14). Boarding started around 12noon and we were told that the lavs were not fixed at all (different from what we were told in the early morning). They still didn't work. It will only be 6 hours and 8 minutes after taking off for the flight. But we should go to the loo on the ground before we boarded and did the best we could on board (still allow to go but keep it at minimum as they didn't flush). Everyone got on and sat down. Around 1:30pm, the plane was still not moving. The captain announced that they had some problems with some instruments in the cockpit and the technicians were trying to fix it. We were let out to use the rest room again at this time. around 2pm, they were getting people going to the rest room onboard and we were told wheels up would be at 2:25pm. This time, we did take off at 2:25pm :-)
The service on the flight was as usual (one meal and one snack before landing) but everyone obviously restrained from taking in too much liquid. We landed at EWR around 3:35pm this afternoon. And we were given a "customer care kit" as we got off the plane.
The crew did there best and tried to be as accommodating as possible. But the passengers on the flight were great as well. We did make the best of the situation and I am sure some people did make some friends. The atomsphere onboard was pretty relaxed but at the end some people did get a bit tense (especially when they found another problem in the cockpit).
I am puzzled by one thing though. Some people got upgraded to BF (onboard, not at check in) on SNN-EWR flight and I am not sure on what ground. There's were empty seats in coach and the flight is obviously not full. I just thought it was a bit unusual (BTW, I am a PE).
Well, that's about it. I was doing my best to report the trip. I may have made some mistake regarding the time but they should not be off too much. I am sure other FT'er on the flight will post more if there are any other than myself.
CJ
After landing at SNN for about an hour, everyone was given a voucher of 10 Euro for a snack and a sheet stating the EU passenger rights and a customer comment card. We were informed that it might take another hour or two to have the problem fixed. At around 7 or 8 pm local time (we landed around 3pm local time), we were told to go through immigration and go to baggage claim to get our bags as we would stay overnight. About an hour later, the bags finally came out. Some people didn't get their bags as the access to that part of the cargo hold on the plane was blocked by the effort to fix the lavs...
Finally, we all got on buses to hotels. It was after 10pm. Some people (strangers) had to share rooms as there were not enough rooms. I overheard on the next day that a few people were driven around on a bus to three different places and finally got rooms. I think two buses came to the hotel I stayed at. Dinner was served between 10:30pm and 11pm. Announcement (NOT by Continental staff) was made at dinner that wakeup call at 6:45am, continental breakfast at 7:15am and leaving for the airport at 7:45am. BTW, I didn't see any Contitnenal people at the hotel. Room sharing was done through a good fellow passenger annoucing at dinner that some people didn't get rooms and asking for volunteers to share. I am pretty sure BF/Elite passengers didn't get different treatments for hotel accommodations and meals (lining up with everyone for checking into the same hotel).
Got to the airport around 8am (6/14) and we were told 4 out of 6 lavs were fixed and they were trying to get the 2 done. The schedule departure time was set at 12 noon. Everyone lined up for security measure and checking in (BF and Elite did get a different line AFTER the security line and seats were reassigned - not the same seat as yesterday). Some people did get another 10 Euro Voucher here again but I didn't get it. The waiting started. Around 10am, announcement were made that our flight would not went through US immigration ("regular" SNN to US flights clear immigration and custom at SNN) and would be boarded at gate 14 around 11:30am. People started to make the long track towards gate 14 but the area was not accessible as it's not "secure". We were told to go back to the duty free area (more shopping) to wait for another announcement. Finally, we were told to proceed to the gate and went through another security (they just set it up near gate 14). Boarding started around 12noon and we were told that the lavs were not fixed at all (different from what we were told in the early morning). They still didn't work. It will only be 6 hours and 8 minutes after taking off for the flight. But we should go to the loo on the ground before we boarded and did the best we could on board (still allow to go but keep it at minimum as they didn't flush). Everyone got on and sat down. Around 1:30pm, the plane was still not moving. The captain announced that they had some problems with some instruments in the cockpit and the technicians were trying to fix it. We were let out to use the rest room again at this time. around 2pm, they were getting people going to the rest room onboard and we were told wheels up would be at 2:25pm. This time, we did take off at 2:25pm :-)
The service on the flight was as usual (one meal and one snack before landing) but everyone obviously restrained from taking in too much liquid. We landed at EWR around 3:35pm this afternoon. And we were given a "customer care kit" as we got off the plane.
The crew did there best and tried to be as accommodating as possible. But the passengers on the flight were great as well. We did make the best of the situation and I am sure some people did make some friends. The atomsphere onboard was pretty relaxed but at the end some people did get a bit tense (especially when they found another problem in the cockpit).
I am puzzled by one thing though. Some people got upgraded to BF (onboard, not at check in) on SNN-EWR flight and I am not sure on what ground. There's were empty seats in coach and the flight is obviously not full. I just thought it was a bit unusual (BTW, I am a PE).
Well, that's about it. I was doing my best to report the trip. I may have made some mistake regarding the time but they should not be off too much. I am sure other FT'er on the flight will post more if there are any other than myself.
CJ
As a direct result of this incident, were reviewing a number of procedures. First of all, we are reviewing our choice of diversion cities for non-emergency situations. Had this flight, for example, diverted to London-Gatwick instead of Shannon, we would have been much better-equipped to handle the needs of our customers. Second, we are currently reviewing our lavatory maintenance procedures to reduce the potential of foreign object obstructions (like latex gloves) to disrupt the air-vacuum plumbing systems on these types of aircraft. We are confident that our 767s have no greater tendency for lavatory-related issues than any other aircraft with air-vacuum plumbing (which constitutes most new-generation aircraft).
Within hours of this flight landing in Newark, we did start calling customers that were on this flight. After our first dozen phone calls, we had a clear sense of what exactly happened from a customer standpoint, and what level of compensation would be considered a fair gesture of goodwill (our offer was higher than any of these suggested amounts). To date, weve reached or left messages for more than 80 percent of those customers from this flight, and with the exception of a very small handful, all customers weve talked to have expressed satisfaction with our follow-up. For anyone from this flight who has not been contacted, please call our Customer Care department at 800-WECARE2.
Jun 21, 2007, 4:04 pm
#37
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: DTW hub-captive
Programs: NWA Platinum
Posts: 122
Heres the story from comcast news. Sounds like someone did it on purpose. Whats next for the TSA to ban - latex gloves ? Reminds me of tenants clogging my toilets with tampons and condoms. Some people are so disrespectful, and then they blame someone else. This is the fault of a passenger, not the airline IMHO. Still what a stinky mess for anyone to endure.
As to compensation this article reads at $500 according to one passenger. (For the second flight #1970)
http://www.comcast.net/news/national...qh=itn_airline
As to compensation this article reads at $500 according to one passenger. (For the second flight #1970)
http://www.comcast.net/news/national...qh=itn_airline
Jun 21, 2007, 4:41 pm
#38
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAS, SAT, IAH
Programs: Flying Nut
Posts: 6,365
Thanks for the Update Scott
I would like to thank Scott for the information about the flight. As someone that teaches about hospitality the procedures as outlined by Scott seem like the way to go and insured that everyone is taken care of in a professional manner. In addition, I am sure that CO is making sure that there is policy written and reviewed about an incidet like this in the future.
As someone in the hopitality field, the potential situations we find ourselves in when working with customers within the field mean that you can not predict 100% of the potential problems, let alone know the best way to compensate everyone when something happens (and the fact that most of the situtations have to be solved in a matter of minutes). What we can see from what Scott is reporting is that CO sees there was a problem, understands the needs of responding to the customers and did so in what seems like a timely manner.
OT for a moment. I am sure that would wold get a similiar response to the other big thread here about the passanger sent onto India with the person of interest except for the fact that it involves police matters which makes it harder to discuss. I do appreciate the fact that CO is willing to talk to us at all about the ways in which they go about solving problems that we hear about here.
This incident should allow CO to see what they can do better in the future and make the customer experience better if and when an incident like this happens in the future. I believe that we can ask no more than for CO to see the problems that we see and then to make appropriate plans for these same problems in future as history will repeat itself at some pint.
As someone in the hopitality field, the potential situations we find ourselves in when working with customers within the field mean that you can not predict 100% of the potential problems, let alone know the best way to compensate everyone when something happens (and the fact that most of the situtations have to be solved in a matter of minutes). What we can see from what Scott is reporting is that CO sees there was a problem, understands the needs of responding to the customers and did so in what seems like a timely manner.
OT for a moment. I am sure that would wold get a similiar response to the other big thread here about the passanger sent onto India with the person of interest except for the fact that it involves police matters which makes it harder to discuss. I do appreciate the fact that CO is willing to talk to us at all about the ways in which they go about solving problems that we hear about here.
This incident should allow CO to see what they can do better in the future and make the customer experience better if and when an incident like this happens in the future. I believe that we can ask no more than for CO to see the problems that we see and then to make appropriate plans for these same problems in future as history will repeat itself at some pint.
Jun 30, 2007, 12:08 pm
#39
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SNA
Programs: DL PM, UA, AA, Priority Club, Marriott Rewards
Posts: 378
I would not necessarily jump to that conclusion. Sounds more plausible that someone on the cleaning crew wanted to get out of the lav quickly and just tossed their gloves in the toilet. Or maybe even an FA doing a quick Lav clean up during the original flight to AMS.
An FA or cleaning crew would be more likely to be using latex gloves....
An FA or cleaning crew would be more likely to be using latex gloves....
Jun 30, 2007, 12:26 pm
#40
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 189
I don't think everyone is satisfied with CO's response...
Came across this blog post - I commend Scott for his informative report, though this person seems less than satisfied with CO's response. I must say that I would also expect a full refund if I had spent miles for a F ticket on said flight.
http://pooponaplane.blogspot.com/
Also, check out the pics they took - man that looks bad!
http://pooponaplane.blogspot.com/200...hic-proof.html
Clearly the plain should have stopped in LGW and taking Shannon off the list of "diversion" cities is a great call on CO's part : )
Oh , here is this passengers original account:
http://nyc.metblogs.com/archives/200...ntal_fli.phtml
http://pooponaplane.blogspot.com/
Also, check out the pics they took - man that looks bad!
http://pooponaplane.blogspot.com/200...hic-proof.html
Clearly the plain should have stopped in LGW and taking Shannon off the list of "diversion" cities is a great call on CO's part : )
Oh , here is this passengers original account:
http://nyc.metblogs.com/archives/200...ntal_fli.phtml