craz

Yep i just edited it so as to reflect what you wrote, thats its NOT disrespectful. I fully understand that even thou one need not, how by doing so it will be more comfortable for the person in question. As I have posted before, unless a person has a TellTale sign that they arent Jewish, everyone will assume that they are and thusly Bug 'em to cover their head. So by covering ones head they can avoid all of that.

CO FF

This has been a great thread. I want to weigh in with my $0.02:

1) Religious services are the wrong time for siteseeing visits, even to magnificent structures such as the great cathedrals. Pick another time; avoid gawking during someone's prayer service.

2) If your personal religious beliefs are impacted by how YOU act/dress/behave etc in ANOTHER religion's services/worship space/holy place, then YOU need to decide in advance if you can be there.

3) If you are invited to a religious ceremony of another faith, make the time in advance to inquire of your host about the customs of the congregation. If standing with the congregation in a synagogue bothers you as an affirmation of Judaism, you probably can't attend, since it would be viewed as offensive by the congregation to remain seated while the Torah is being carried around the sanctuary. If being seated while others kneel in a church offends the host community, then you probably can't attend unless you're willing to kneel.

One observation for "hosts": when you invite visitors to a religious service, take a moment to think about it - both from their perspective and from the perspective of the congregation. Maybe ask a friend from church/synagogue to sit with visitors of other faiths, to answer questions, explain ritual, etc.

Analise

So going back to stinky123's comments about not needing to look like everyone else, this certainly would not apply to a woman especially in an orthodox temple.

stinky123

The standard of modesty that is expected of a woman in a synagogue or at the Western wall isn't different from the standard of modesty that any respectful person would probably follow in a house of worship.

Having said that, I visited the Western wall when I was 12 and a woman came running out of a kiosk and gave me a wraparound skirt to borrow because I was wearing shorts . . .

rkt10

You know, my son married a Jewish girl and the ceremony (including signing the Katubah) was held in a hotel ballroom. My husband and my other son (his best man) didn't wear yamukas.

I've actually felt bad about that, because I don't think it was a very kind thing for them to do. I think it would have been more respectful for them to have worn them.

On the otherhand, neither of them believe in any particular religion, and only hold a belief in God sort of to "keep their options open" so I also understand why they chose not to wear them.

But, in hindsight, especially since we were the family of the groom, I wish they had.
Rita

ldsant

I am fascinated by other religions so I do try and attend services when I'm in another country e.g., going to Mass on Christmas Eve at Notre Dame in Paris. I stand but do not kneel in a Catholic Church nor do I say the prayers. When in a Buddhist Temple I wear a sarong and am quiet. In other Christian churches I listen but do not participate. I am very interested in learning about other religions and hearing the sermon is usually the most interesting part for me.

However; I do buy candles in the Catholic church and have somebody else say the prayer for me that I tell them to say. As my FT friend who was travelling with me and had to do this said to me "umm . .you do realize that you're SAYING the prayer IN the Church, right?" My response "well, yeah, but I'm not lighting the candle so it doesn't count!"

I am Jewish, but not Orthodox. So when I go to a synagogue that is Orthodox, I observe their customs and sit quietly (no book with me ) watching and listening what is going on.

Overall, I just think that having a curiosity about other religions, being deferential, and being open-minded is the best way to behave. It just comes down to respect. Respect for your beliefs and respect for others' beliefs.

rkt10

Some years ago I attended a funeral for a co-worker's mother, who was Jewish. I participated as much as I could... meaning I followed the congregations example during the prayers. Nothing was more moving than the reading about the Valiant Woman, especially since this woman was in her early 50s and had died after a 3-year battle with cancer. Valiant indeed.

Anyway, I didn't feel as if I were betraying any of my own Catholic religion, since my sole purpose, and the purpose of the congregation seemed to be to pray to God for the deceased.

It was actually a beautiful service and I was grateful to have been there.
Rita

Jakebeth

Thiis seems to be the ultimate problem in many cases. Based on what Craz has told me/us, it's not really a requirement for non-Jewish people to wear a yarmulke/kippah within a synagogue, etc.

I've spent many years involved in Jewish life, though, and even I never knew this. I would have thought it odd to see someone without one until now.

That said, and I note this particularly for you Rita - it's a basic tenet of Judaism (or at the very least Jewish tradition) not to make one's guest feel uncomfortable. It would have been wrong for any Jewish person to try and make your husband and son feel that way, so you probably shouldn't let it bother you now, either.

craz

This will not be the case with ALL the other Religions. Its very possible that there will be things done or said or inferred in the Service that is Not acceptable to the other persons Religion, although it might be acceptable to them personally or not bother them personally.

I can only think that a Muslim, Jew, Buddist etc will not look favorably to directing the prayers Except to G-D. Which is not the case, when it comes to any Branch of Chirstianity. It worked for you since it was being directed straight to G-D , and no one or thing that would be looked upon Unfavorably by your Religion.

all too often we assume that that which is taught must be the only way. Many things that are acceptable or done in the Western World is based on the teachings of Christianity and not everyone is a Christian, and thusly shouldnt be expected to act or think like one.


I dont want a separation of Religion and State, NOR do I want it being Mandatory for anyone who isnt a Christian to have to sing in a Schools Christmas Show or be penalized for not doing so, the child/ren arent Believers in that Religion dont try to make them be. If a child is forced to otherwise the others will keep them at bay, something is then wrong with the underlining Educational Thought process.

If Im asked to do something that is contrary to my Religious Beliefs , I will REFUSE to do so, and would rather walk out and NOT be apart of whatever it is that is taking place.

As another Poster put it, its not the time to learn about another Religion during the Time of their Services. Visit when its over, if you cant attend due to your Religious Beliefs simply explain that to the Parties that are involved, they should understand, after all its them who Chose for whatever reason to have the Event in a House of Worship, rather than a Neutral Venue.


"When in Rome, do as the ROMANS" is NOT a Jewish saying or Belief although Individual Jews might think it is.

Efrem

A great thread. I think Dovster's original post and gleff's one-word summary in post 98 are excellent guidelines.

I dated an Episcopalian woman for several years not long ago and went to services with her several times - mostly her traditional church, one mass at Notre Dame. I followed similar guidelines and didn't get into any trouble with anyone in the congregation, with the clergy or with her. If she had had a problem with my behavior I'm sure I'd have heard about it.

As for kneeling, people have discussed its true meaning, worship/respect/etc., and whether it's appropriate for someone outside a religion to do it on that basis. Another issue, however, is how it is perceived by those around you. If I kneel at a Catholic service, or go up to the altar rail at Communion time, I may know in my heart that I'm only showing respect - but those around me will probably perceive it as indicating concurrence with their beliefs. Standing, sitting, etc., at the appropriate times does not IMHO show this, but kneeling and going forward for Communion do. I draw the line on that basis. I won't do anything that is likely to be taken as a statement which I can't support in my heart, no matter how I know I intend it.

Following that principle, I don't think wearing a yarmulke at a Jewish service shows a belief in Judaism. (RC bishops would have to take their skullcaps off before entering a synagogue if it did.) When my niece married into a Catholic family a few years ago, in a Jewish ceremony, the men in the wedding party wore matching yarmulkes. I don't know if her new brothers-in-law thought they were showing respect, dressing up like bishops, or anything else, but they didn't have a problem with it - and knowing that family, I'm sure at least one of them cleared it with the family priest.

When it comes to travel, I spent a week in Oaxaca over the Christmas holiday and after. Some of that time was looking at churches. (Some of it was also at Mayan holy sites, but practicing Mayans are thin on the ground these days.) If there was a service going on we stood at the back and didn't take pictures. If there wasn't, we walked around like the tourists we were and took pictures, respecting any signs that asked us not to use flash (though many others did not). We didn't encounter any objections there either.

rkt10

Oh, Efrem, please don't go up to the altar rail at Communion time, unless you are looking to be blessed by the priest. If you receive communion you are not showing respect.

Communion in the Catholic Church is actually only available for those Catholics who are in the state of grace and who have been trained in the sacrament. It is not a part of the service for showing fellowship with people of other faiths.

One thing I will criticize American Catholic Priests about ('cause those are the only ones I have experience with) is that they have not done a good enough job of clarifying that fact with congregations... particularly the ones (like weddings and funerals) where non-Catholics are likely to be in attendance. If you look in the missals often on the back cover, or one of the inside covers there will be a couple of paragraphs regarding who may receive communion.

But for a non-Catholic to receive Communion knowing the "rules" it would actually be an insult, and not a sign of respect.

Thanks,
Rita

Analise

When 2 or 3 Episcopalians are gathered, there is always a fifth (aka 1/5). As a member of the "frozen chosen" ( ), nobody is really paying attention to anybody else. Our worship involves a little bit of calisthenics so you can always watch what others do if you want to fit in with the crowd. That said, I hope you enjoyed the mass.

Rita, I'm not sure why anybody would want to take communion who didn't want the body and blood of Jesus inside of him. That said, in the Episcopal Church, where Ephrem worshiped with his friend, all are welcomed to the altar. God knows what is in everybody's hearts and He is the only judge.

rkt10

Analise, I think Ephrem said he goes up to the communion rail at a Catholic Church.

That said, I wouldn't, for example, go up to receive communion in an Episcopal church.

Rita

Analise

Why? My parish in particular attracts many Catholics longing for pre-Vatican II liturgy. And then they stay.

l etoile

I'm sure someone much more up on this will chime in, but AFAIK it is a violation of canon law for a RC to take Communion in a non-RC church, except in extreme circumstances (they're dying) and then only from certain Orthodox and Eastern priests whose churches have the same beliefs about transubstantiation as the RCC. SPN Lifer could I sure elaborate much more on this and correct me if I'm wrong.

Other faiths have different rules on who may take Communion there and on where their members may take Communion. The Episcopal Church allows baptized Christians to take Communion in their churches; not just Episcopalians, but a Roman Catholic would still not accept it there in keeping with canon law.