funkyr

Hi all,

I'm currently sitting in the QF first lounge at the restaurant.

When I arrived I was told there were no tables and asked to sit in the sitting lounge area. I was asked to give my flight so I gave it (well I gave the EK flight number although my ticket as actually a QF8XXX flight). I wasn't keen to sit at the lounge so was offered the bar.

Arriving at the restaurant there were 6 tables empty and I was asked to sit at the bar. After a while I realised that the table height was awkward to eat I and asked to move to an empty table. I was asked my flight again (this time I gave the QF8XXX number) and was told by 2 different staff members that they have to reserve seats for Qantas flight customers (presumably the A380 flight leaving later tonight).

Speechless.... I don't usually like doing this but I said I'm P1 and that didn't seem to help. I insisted and eventually was offered to sit with a party of 3 strangers to make 4! Again I insisted and was offered a table for only 20 mins.

Has his happened to anyone before? Is this lounge policy?? My ticket was a Qantas issued ticket so Qantas still get revenue from the sale. Wasn't very impressed.

serfty

Obviously they were trying to save seats - I am thinking if you were on QF9 they would have found some other reason to deny you a table.

Irrespective, that is very poor.

m0hamed

QF reserve tables for F pax travelling on QF flights, particularly those who have F hosts.

Like F hosts, this service is only provided for QF metal flights so it appears they were following procedure.

I would have thought that some special treatment would be afforded to P1s but clearly that's not the case.

garethlewis

Face value that seems pretty poor, they could have simply explained the policy of QF to avoid this

og

I have aimed for a SYD F table in the past year only to be told "that's reserved, I'll get you when one's available".

Platy

I'd be ringing that magical P1 hotline and providing feedback.

(While respecting P1 has been beneficial to others, I found the experience to be underwhelming and not close to delivering as expected - I don't think QF are that serious about the P1 game and this confirms my suspicions).

Platy

This raises questions about product consistency. Why isn't the customer experience consistent across the QF / EK alliance? Hosts for some, but not for others. Tables reserved for some, but not for others. Chauffeur drive for some, but not for others, etc.

number_6

It's clearly based on commercial value to QF. They are rationing benefits based on your value to QF, presumably they have good analytics to base this decision upon. Lots of firms are doing this now, with the rise of big data providing greater insight into what a particular customer is really worth. Expect it to spread to other airlines soon. Of course for FT it is unsettling as it reduces the arbitrage opportunities that FT is based upon. Get your own big data to fight back!

Platy

I suspect you are correct.

I just wouldn't assume that the analytical model is necessarily "good" (i.e. competent) - it may be, it may not! It'll depend on the capacity of the model to reflect real life and generate appropriate outputs and the quality of the input data.

And it's also a two-way street: if you experience a lesser service (as per the OP's access to a dining table) it shows you where you stand in the airline's pecking order and that may inform your purchasing decision away from that airline if you find such to be counter to your personal expectations!

Game on...!

moa999

I have seen reserved tables for F pax many times...

And had once (travelling award F) where I was escorted to the massage room, and then back out straight to a table.

I don't see anything wrong with treating full F pax better. The question is would a Plat member flying Y on QF / JQ have received any differing treatment to you?

Platy

Isn't the real issue that the first class lounge dining facilities are just too small for their intended function (not enough dining seats for all)?

Surely the situation is farcical when QF is having to burn through staff time managing access to dining tables according to some hierarchy!

And surely ridiculous that high yield customers have then to be stratified by value and treated differently to each other in a manner that is so obvious to the customer?

If this "solution" is operating in the first lounge, can one foresee something similar being used in other overcrowded lounge facilities?

Or worse, lounge access by P1s and WPs gets eroded in some further way?

Dave Noble

What is needed imo is a proper 1st class lounge for use by 1st class passengers , rather than being primarily for those holding status

The number of passengers departing in 1st class on a flight where QF provides lounge access should be small enough that there would be no problem providing lounge facilities to comfortably seat them all

BA kind of does this with its Concorde Room and until the alliance with Qantas, Emirates was great in that its 1st lounge was for 1st passengers

Platy

An interesting idea...(but remember BA can sustain several lounges with its relatively huge traffic volume).


So where would you draw the line (no CLs, no P1, no WPs, no non-QF issued ticket stock even if in F (akin to chauffeur drive exclusions) no BA first pax)?

Would you be consistent - apply the same concept to both SYD and MEL?

How many folk would need to be accommodated if first class passengers only?

SYD

0600 EK415 DXB
0750 QF8764 AKL
0915 EK8766 CHC
0950 QF11 LAX
1055 QF309 LAX
1300 QF7 DFW
1445 BA16 SIN-LHR
1550 QF1 1550 DXB-LHR
1645 EK419 BKK-DXB
2110 EK 413 DXB

Allowing 14 pax per flight (full capacity) and given that the flights are fairly evenly distributed it seems that the whole lounge would never have to accommodate more than a small number of visitors, perhaps three aircraft's worth maximum of 40 to 50 (?).

MEL

0710 QF8762 AKL
0915 QF93 LAX
1800 EK405 SIN-DXB
2125 EK407 DXB
2255 QF9 DXB-LHR
0240 EK409 KUL-DXB

Allowing 14 pax per flight (full capacity) and given that the flights are fairly evenly distributed it seems that the whole lounge would never have to accommodate more than a small number of visitors, perhaps two aircraft's worth maximum of 25 to 35 (?). Note the the QF first lounge is closed well before the 0240 EK409 departure.


So how would you apply the idea to both SYD and MEL in terms of existing facilities?

Would you have a pseudo-first lounge for the excluded (OWE, WP, P1, CL, etc) like BA and end up with three separate lounge operations or boot them into the business lounge?

The new first exclusive lounge would be relatively very small - that raises issues of cost effectiveness - unit cost per passenger goes up since you have lost your critical mass!

And are you prepared for the substantive downgrading in status for whoever you exclude (e.g. WPs see another benefit lost eroding the appeal of WP over Gold)?

If you are going to have to rework the lounge set up anyway (at least in MEL) due to overcrowding why not simply increase capacity in MEL F lounge rather than complicate the scenario into three lounges?

Dave Noble

pretty simple - 1st class boarding pass for Qantas or a 1st class boarding pass for an airline for which QF provides 3rd party lounge access

No reason for it to be based on who issued the ticket

There are other airlines that manage to follow the idea that a 1st class lounge is for 1st class passengers

Platy

OK.

Now all that's needed is a practical response to the remaining questions on the logistics and cost of execution!

Thanks for sharing.