Perth-Singapore resumes
Apr 30, 2015, 7:56 pm
#91
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
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Posts: 560
That was a good idea, unfortunately spoiled by another attempt by you to have the last word.
But everyone can read what you have written and what I have written, and they can try to make some sense out of the arguments advanced by you that contain clear factual errors which you have not even had the grace to acknowledge when they have been pointed out to you.You have already seen above, using hard data, how few international flights QF operates from BNE despite the fact that all airlines find BNE more attractive than PER (as demonstrated by the higher overall figures for flights and seats): QF has only 5 out of 38 tomorrow.
But everyone can read what you have written and what I have written, and they can try to make some sense out of the arguments advanced by you that contain clear factual errors which you have not even had the grace to acknowledge when they have been pointed out to you.You have already seen above, using hard data, how few international flights QF operates from BNE despite the fact that all airlines find BNE more attractive than PER (as demonstrated by the higher overall figures for flights and seats): QF has only 5 out of 38 tomorrow.
May 27, 2015, 4:36 am
#92
Join Date: Apr 2007
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That is why they will struggle against airlines for which the same route is a flight to/from a hub. So when SQ operates PER-SIN, that is a flight from a place that is not a hub to a place that is a hub. Ditto, if CX operates PER-HKG, that is a flight from a place that is not a hub to a place that is a hub.
From my perspective I'm not looking for QF to operate "lots of international flights" out of PER, but surely they can do better than what they do now.
The point is not that there should not be flights out of BNE (though it makes a mockery of the whole "hub" debate) the point is that there is a significant un catered demand out of PER to international destinations being forgone by QF. This reintroduction of SIN is a good backflip and if they have half a brain they will look critically at other routes that they have abandoned as well.
May 27, 2015, 6:02 am
#93
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
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Posts: 560
But thanks for your support, good to know that more people than Fred and I can see the flaws in the abandonment "strategy"
May 27, 2015, 8:20 am
#94
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EK's flights to/from Australia and New Zealand all start at DXB and all end at DXB. MXP-JFK also starts at DXB. I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I believe that DXB is an EK hub.
I actually think PER is situated very well from a geographical and economic perspective. It's a stone's throw from Asia (Bali is closer than Canberra) and on the same or very similar time zone for much of it and it's obviously closer to Africa, the Middle East and Europe. In fact, without doing the sums I would think that of all the international destinations QF flies to PER would be closer to most of them than SYD or MEL. Where I do acknowledge it falls down is population but, again, surely QF could do better than what it's doing now.
May 27, 2015, 8:33 am
#95
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin
Posts: 4,629
They do but UA is forced to compete in the US with Southwest Airlines which is a committed point to point carrier. UA also has many large hubs. If it were not for WN then I suspect that UA would have very few if any non-hub domestic flights.
May 28, 2015, 7:11 am
#96
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
Programs: QFF WP
Posts: 560
"Point to point" flights are the opposite of flights "servicing a hub". If the flight operates to/from a hub, it's not a point-to-point flight. But I think you are just being deliberately obtuse about this.
EK's flights to/from Australia and New Zealand all start at DXB and all end at DXB. MXP-JFK also starts at DXB. I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I believe that DXB is an EK hub.And that's very possibly a fatal flaw. Good hubs are not only good connecting points, but typically have a lot of high-yielding O&D as well.
EK's flights to/from Australia and New Zealand all start at DXB and all end at DXB. MXP-JFK also starts at DXB. I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I believe that DXB is an EK hub.And that's very possibly a fatal flaw. Good hubs are not only good connecting points, but typically have a lot of high-yielding O&D as well.
The more you argue it, the less water your position holds. Remember in your opinion there were only hubs, not points. No QF flight to or from PER because it was not a HUB. Until PER-SIN was re-added, then it became points.
On pointing out only Oz needs 3 "hubs" when RSA, HKG, SIN, Malaysia, Dubai etc etc etc manage with one you trot out a hollow city state argument, but you ignore RSA because it does not suit your point.
This topic has been done to death, your position is as flawed as Qantas logic as evidenced by both you and the airline changing your opinion at your own convenience.
As I said, opening old wounds.
May 28, 2015, 7:34 am
#97
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
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[mod hat] I am wondering whether this thread is going anywhere? Or anywhere good for this matter. Please try to stay relevant and on topic. [/mod hat]
May 28, 2015, 10:18 am
#98
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Location: Katoomba (Blue Mountains)
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Ok, so EK's international flights all start from and end in Dubai, and Qantas' international flights all start and end in........ Australia. PER being a city of Australia, like all the other "hubs" or "points" or whatever your next terminology may be (my guess is "rim" as it circles both hub and spoke, but who can tell until you tell us all we are wrong right??).
The more you argue it, the less water your position holds. Remember in your opinion there were only hubs, not points. No QF flight to or from PER because it was not a HUB. Until PER-SIN was re-added, then it became points.
On pointing out only Oz needs 3 "hubs" when RSA, HKG, SIN, Malaysia, Dubai etc etc etc manage with one you trot out a hollow city state argument, but you ignore RSA because it does not suit your point.
This topic has been done to death, your position is as flawed as Qantas logic as evidenced by both you and the airline changing your opinion at your own convenience.
As I said, opening old wounds.
The more you argue it, the less water your position holds. Remember in your opinion there were only hubs, not points. No QF flight to or from PER because it was not a HUB. Until PER-SIN was re-added, then it became points.
On pointing out only Oz needs 3 "hubs" when RSA, HKG, SIN, Malaysia, Dubai etc etc etc manage with one you trot out a hollow city state argument, but you ignore RSA because it does not suit your point.
This topic has been done to death, your position is as flawed as Qantas logic as evidenced by both you and the airline changing your opinion at your own convenience.
As I said, opening old wounds.
The economics of airline operations dictates that you get as many bums on seats as possible.
The best way of doing this, as far as ihternational travel goes, is with the hub and spoke method.
Taking your preferred option for multiple flights out of Perth, how about we extend this, and make it multiple flights out of Karratha/Broome/Port Hedland?
Maybe even further, multiple flights per day out of Meekatharra?
The reality is that not all ports can support direct services (Where is the twice daily Meekatharra - Denpasar service?)
Perth just happens to be one of those ports which cannot support a multitude of services.
Dave
Last edited by thadocta; May 28, 2015 at 10:32 am
May 28, 2015, 10:29 am
#99
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Location: Katoomba (Blue Mountains)
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Posts: 8,083
Ok, so EK's international flights all start from and end in Dubai, and Qantas' international flights all start and end in........ Australia. PER being a city of Australia, like all the other "hubs" or "points" or whatever your next terminology may be (my guess is "rim" as it circles both hub and spoke, but who can tell until you tell us all we are wrong right??).
Now, you brought up about QF hubbing through Australia,
Let;s look a bit further, BA only huns through London (Would you be happy with the BA model?
As it stands, QF has a couple of hubs, SYD, Mel (a minor hub) and BNE. If you want to fly QF from somewhere to somewhere else, then you hub through those ports. If you don't want to hub, then you fly someone else
I really am at a loss - as a QF shareholder - to find why you are getting so worked up about thid. either the route workd for you or it doesn.t
Dave
May 28, 2015, 12:31 pm
#100
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Ok, so EK's international flights all start from and end in Dubai, and Qantas' international flights all start and end in........ Australia. PER being a city of Australia, like all the other "hubs" or "points" or whatever your next terminology may be (my guess is "rim" as it circles both hub and spoke, but who can tell until you tell us all we are wrong right??).
In contrast, "Australia" is vast country which (according to some) qualifies as a continent in its own right. "Australia" is not a city state and "Australia" is not an airport. It's therefore nonsense to suggest that any QF international flight from PER is comparable to any EK flight from DXB. PER is not a hub, and QF shows no signs of changing its position on that.
What I have repeatedly and consistently said is that if a network airline operates an international flight that doesn't have a hub at one end, that flight will struggle. That's the consistent experience of network airlines all around the world. I've given you examples already (all of which you've conveniently ignored). It's why BA is so often accused of having become London Airways. It's why UA operates NCL-EWR, but BA doesn't. It's why AA operates EDI-JFK, but BA doesn't. It's why AA operates EDI-JFK, but UA operates EDI-EWR. For each of the airlines operating those routes, there's a hub at one end. For BA, it would be a point-to-point flight which would struggle.
And accusations of illogicality are a bit rich coming from someone who couldn't even count properly, let alone distinguish between QF flights and QF codeshare flights.