TSA plans to replace the walk-through metal detect with MMW
Apr 26, 2009, 3:03 pm
#76
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TSA revised its procedures by modifying how certain pat-downs were conducted; allowing more attempts at the walk-thru metal detector to give passengers more opportunities to successfully divest anything metallic that may trigger an alarm
If only they'd stopped there.
; and now has come up with a technology that virtually eliminates any need to physically pat down a passenger.
A technology that costs many times more than perfectly good metal detectors and is far, far more invasive.
A technology of which TSA is so enamored that it now may insist anyone who declines to use it be physically patted down.
A technology which requires citizens using it to be separated from their belongings and wallets for an extended period of time, subjecting them to increased risk of theft and identity fraud.
A technology which does nothing to enhance security, in short, at a tremendous cost of lost money and privacy and personal security.
Still, there are those who are determined to whine about one thing or another no matter what TSA does.
By the way, this technology was prompted by customer complaints.
Apr 26, 2009, 3:24 pm
#77
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You are indeed correct. We are discontented because TSA is a colossal waste of scarce taxpayer dollars that does NOTHING to improve security.
It's nothing more than a jobs programs and Kabuki theatre to create the impression that government is "doing something" to improve security.
It's nothing more than a jobs programs and Kabuki theatre to create the impression that government is "doing something" to improve security.
Apr 26, 2009, 6:41 pm
#80
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A perfectly valid and sensible complaint. Why should citizens have to be groped by government functionaries to travel?
A perfectly valid and sensible response from TSA! Well done! TSA took heed of citizens' legitimate complaint and formulated a change in policy that reduced citizens' discomfort and inconvenience without sacrificing security in the slightest.
If only they'd stopped there.
A technology about which TSA is suspiciously evasive, contradictory, and dishonest in its claims, and a technology to which no one at TSA is willing to subject themselves in public, as seen by the many refusals of PV bloggers to post scans of themselves in a strip-search chamber at the same size and resolution TSA's hidden strip-search chamber operators see.
A technology that costs many times more than perfectly good metal detectors and is far, far more invasive.
A technology of which TSA is so enamored that it now may insist anyone who declines to use it be physically patted down.
A technology which requires citizens using it to be separated from their belongings and wallets for an extended period of time, subjecting them to increased risk of theft and identity fraud.
A technology which does nothing to enhance security, in short, at a tremendous cost of lost money and privacy and personal security.
This is an utterly dishonest characterization. TSA deserves to be criticized for this insane and useless invasion of privacy and waste of resources.
TSA does not have "customers," it has citizens it is, in theory, supposed to be protecting. And it is vanishingly unlikely that a single citizen asked TSA to come up with a way to take naked pictures of citizens wishing to travel by air.
A perfectly valid and sensible response from TSA! Well done! TSA took heed of citizens' legitimate complaint and formulated a change in policy that reduced citizens' discomfort and inconvenience without sacrificing security in the slightest.
If only they'd stopped there.
A technology about which TSA is suspiciously evasive, contradictory, and dishonest in its claims, and a technology to which no one at TSA is willing to subject themselves in public, as seen by the many refusals of PV bloggers to post scans of themselves in a strip-search chamber at the same size and resolution TSA's hidden strip-search chamber operators see.
A technology that costs many times more than perfectly good metal detectors and is far, far more invasive.
A technology of which TSA is so enamored that it now may insist anyone who declines to use it be physically patted down.
A technology which requires citizens using it to be separated from their belongings and wallets for an extended period of time, subjecting them to increased risk of theft and identity fraud.
A technology which does nothing to enhance security, in short, at a tremendous cost of lost money and privacy and personal security.
This is an utterly dishonest characterization. TSA deserves to be criticized for this insane and useless invasion of privacy and waste of resources.
TSA does not have "customers," it has citizens it is, in theory, supposed to be protecting. And it is vanishingly unlikely that a single citizen asked TSA to come up with a way to take naked pictures of citizens wishing to travel by air.
TSA has moved from "grope if you beep" rules to "grope if you won't have a nekkid picture taken."
I never beep and I can't remember the last time I was groped. Now it sounds like I will be groped much more often, because I will decline having nekkid pictures taken of me at the airport for no good reason.
Apr 26, 2009, 6:47 pm
#81
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You've always had the option of bypassing the WTMD, ETP and/or this new technology. However, if you do so, you still have to undergo screening. That leaves the full body pat down. There's no insisting to it; it's purely your choice. Again, as I understand it, you do not have to go through these body scanners and can opt to go through the regular WTMD.
New policy: Either me, my daughter or my son must have nekkid pictures of us taken, or we get trip through the WTMD...AND a pat-down.
Don't you see how that adds up to a lot more pat-downs for me than under current policy, since I am not personally going to be posing for any nekkid pictures, and if you insist on taking nekkid pictures of my daughter or son, I'll pop you one in the nose.
Last edited by triehle; Apr 27, 2009 at 1:30 am
Apr 26, 2009, 6:51 pm
#82
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That's fiction -- it's also yet another indication of how an organization comes up with a "problem" in search of a "solution" the organization's personalities had in mind even before there were any legitimate customer complaints -- real or fictional -- directed to the organization that "prompted" this technology.
The technology was around before there was a TSA taking real complaints from legitimate passengers.
It's not too hard for the TSA to go around cherry-picking amongst "customer complaints" to create a "problem" in search of this kind of "solution" it already had in mind. Customer complaints supposedly prompting the demand for these expensive electronic strip searching machines is part of the TSA kool-aid mix.
Just say no to the TSA kool-aid being served by the TSA and corporate lobbyists who create fictional passenger demand for these expensive, time-munching strip searches at airports.
The technology was around before there was a TSA taking real complaints from legitimate passengers.
It's not too hard for the TSA to go around cherry-picking amongst "customer complaints" to create a "problem" in search of this kind of "solution" it already had in mind. Customer complaints supposedly prompting the demand for these expensive electronic strip searching machines is part of the TSA kool-aid mix.
Just say no to the TSA kool-aid being served by the TSA and corporate lobbyists who create fictional passenger demand for these expensive, time-munching strip searches at airports.
Apr 26, 2009, 7:16 pm
#85
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Quick correction: a choice between the MMW and the WTMD plus a pat down. Not just the WTMD anymore - even if you don't freaking beep, you still get a punishing pat down.
Try to sit back and think a moment, if you can. The funding for this has to be approved by Congress. That means that it has to be justified as a legitimate expense. If you don't think passenger feedback played a role, either comments made directly to TSA or to Congresscritters, then I don't know what else to say other than we disagree.
You don't have to pass through this machine. You still have a choice between this technology and the WTMD. You don't have to take my word for it; apparently you don't anyway, which makes me curious why you even responded to my post. But you've always had this hard-on for me, eh, snake?
You don't have to pass through this machine. You still have a choice between this technology and the WTMD. You don't have to take my word for it; apparently you don't anyway, which makes me curious why you even responded to my post. But you've always had this hard-on for me, eh, snake?
Apr 26, 2009, 7:37 pm
#87
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First of all, the thread title is misleading. These are expensive machines and will not replace WTMDs across the board. Even at airports where they're used, everything I've read says that passengers will have a choice to pass through one of these body scanners or a regular WTMD. And the multiple-pass policy for the WTMD will still remain: you can try again if you continue to alarm the WTMD, which reduces the likelihood of being patted down as the result of a metal detector alarm.
Please read the article posted in the first post of this thread. Among other things, it says,
... Robin Kane, the [TSA]'s acting chief technology officer, said the initial results from tests at some checkpoints at 19 airports in the United States had been so good that the idea of using the machines as the standard checkpoint detectors made sense.
The plan now is that all passengers will "go through the whole-body imager instead of the walk-through metal detector," he said.
Assuming tests continue to be positive, the machines will eventually be used at most domestic airports.
The plan now is that all passengers will "go through the whole-body imager instead of the walk-through metal detector," he said.
Assuming tests continue to be positive, the machines will eventually be used at most domestic airports.
If Robin Kane is not with the TSA, if he has been cruelly mis-quoted (it happens), or if this is just a giant media beat-up, we'd love to hear from TSA that this is all wrong. Until then, we can only assume that this is TSA's official word.
On the issue of this technology being developed in response to customer feedback about pat-downs, that may be the official TSA line but it's just not true. I know people who know people in this area. Researchers were working on this technology before 9/11, based on concerns about someone bringing a ceramic knife or gun through a checkpoint where it wouldn't alarm the WTMD. After 9/11, these researchers approached governments for funding, and the work was fast-tracked, even before the early protests about the initial pat-down process.
Last edited by RadioGirl; Apr 26, 2009 at 11:19 pm Reason: I'm not attacking Bart, just trying to give background.
Apr 26, 2009, 7:41 pm
#88
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First of all, the thread title is misleading. These are expensive machines and will not replace WTMDs across the board. Even at airports where they're used, everything I've read says that passengers will have a choice to pass through one of these body scanners or a regular WTMD. And the multiple-pass policy for the WTMD will still remain: you can try again if you continue to alarm the WTMD, which reduces the likelihood of being patted down as the result of a metal detector alarm.
I think a lot of you are overreacting without availing yourselves to the actual facts.
EEK! AHH! Not in my town!! Yaddi-yaddi-yaddi.
I think a lot of you are overreacting without availing yourselves to the actual facts.
EEK! AHH! Not in my town!! Yaddi-yaddi-yaddi.
NY Times, April 7, 2009 IN a shift, the Transportation Security Administration plans to replace the walk-through metal detectors at airport checkpoints with whole-body imaging machines — the kind that provide an image of the naked body.
Initially, the machines were supposed to be used only on passengers who set off the metal detectors, to provide them with an option to the customary secondary physical pat-downs and inspections by electronic wand.
But Robin Kane, the agency’s acting chief technology officer, said that the initial results from pilot tests at some checkpoints at 19 airports in the United States had been so good that the idea of using the machines as the standard checkpoint detectors made sense. Those results included, he said, positive feedback from passengers.
The plan now is that all passengers will “go through the whole-body imager instead of the walk-through metal detector,” he said.
Initially, the machines were supposed to be used only on passengers who set off the metal detectors, to provide them with an option to the customary secondary physical pat-downs and inspections by electronic wand.
But Robin Kane, the agency’s acting chief technology officer, said that the initial results from pilot tests at some checkpoints at 19 airports in the United States had been so good that the idea of using the machines as the standard checkpoint detectors made sense. Those results included, he said, positive feedback from passengers.
The plan now is that all passengers will “go through the whole-body imager instead of the walk-through metal detector,” he said.
Apr 26, 2009, 8:25 pm
#89
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I can't see this being financially feasible. They wont fit in the current space and some airports simply don't have the option of option of increasing the size of the checkpoints.
Imagine trying to pass through a checkpoint at a busier airport and it being reduced to 3 x-ray and MMW lanes. The wait times would become ridiculous.
Imagine trying to pass through a checkpoint at a busier airport and it being reduced to 3 x-ray and MMW lanes. The wait times would become ridiculous.