Your right to fly without ID (proof at last)
Nov 10, 2007, 8:38 pm
#151
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There were a couple passengers who used other than passports/driver's licenses as their ID. They explained that they had government-issued IDs, and I didn't argue. However, it did take me more time to inspect the ID and it did throw my rhythm off. But that's not the interesting part. The interesting part was the reaction of those in line behind these folks. I'm not going to suggest that they should have pulled out their driver's licenses/passports; however, I did see people behind them either roll their eyes or put their hands on their hips in disgust once they realized why the line had slowed down.
Out of curiosity, what did these other pax use as government ID?
I don't like the idea of the TSA ID check (I'm seeing it in most airports now) - but I just hand over my drivers license or passport.
The less time I spend in the security line and/or dealing with the TSA, the better. If one objects to the checks, which I do, I write my elected officials. While it isn't required to show an ID, I prefer to provide it and minimise my time at the checkpoint. Trying to make a point at a checkpoint isn't an answer or solution, IMHO. Writing elected officials is - but quite frankly I'm fed up with my elected officials... They don't do anything. Look at what congress has done this most recent session. The list is short. Now, only if we had a better pool of candidates in the upcoming election.
At SDF it seems like they've been doing ID training lately. Past few times through the checkpoint there's been two TSO's working together with the ID checks. I saw one screener confused looking for the picture page on US passports last week.
My passport is older and my pic page is on the front while other companions I've travelled with have newer passports where the pic page is on the second. I'm sure there is a bit of a learning curve with all the different ID types and then you get something different and it throws ya off... but why, oh why, is the TSA checking ID's?
It's just a waste of resources, IMO... Bart - so what do you think of the ID checks now that you're doing them? (at least for the purpose of getting trained, to train)
Kindest Regards,
SDF_Traveler
Nov 10, 2007, 8:48 pm
#152
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We'll keep some kids from buying beer though.
Last edited by Superguy; Nov 10, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Nov 10, 2007, 9:16 pm
#153
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I don't see what the fuss is about unless you're a wanted felon, terrorist, drug smuggler etc. I'm partly disabled and I have a foot brace and metal cane. I get pulled out of line for a sniff test and x-ray of my device every time. This is not a violation of my rights. With the wacko's out there, I'm glad they do it!
Be thankfull it took this long for them to start doing it. I've traveled all over the world and most countries have used this procedure for years to find criminals, terrorists etc.
Try going any country in Africa, S.America, Asia etc and you'll appreciate the U.S. process. You have to show your passport. Thats an ID isn't it? You think our security lines are long? Whats the difference?
If you're a member of a certain ethnic origin and your being singled out, blame your drug smuggling, sucide bombing, radical religious countrymen for the scrunity.
Quit being paranoid. Be a good citizen and help the government do their job in protecting us from the bad guys. Would you perfer they not do it and have the plane your on get hijacked or blown up? I think not.
I'm proud to be an American and to help my government stop this insanity of others that want to destroy the american way of life.
Like my dad said, you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.
Cue the music "God Bless America", superimpose the flag, and slowly fade to black.....
Be thankfull it took this long for them to start doing it. I've traveled all over the world and most countries have used this procedure for years to find criminals, terrorists etc.
Try going any country in Africa, S.America, Asia etc and you'll appreciate the U.S. process. You have to show your passport. Thats an ID isn't it? You think our security lines are long? Whats the difference?
If you're a member of a certain ethnic origin and your being singled out, blame your drug smuggling, sucide bombing, radical religious countrymen for the scrunity.
Quit being paranoid. Be a good citizen and help the government do their job in protecting us from the bad guys. Would you perfer they not do it and have the plane your on get hijacked or blown up? I think not.
I'm proud to be an American and to help my government stop this insanity of others that want to destroy the american way of life.
Like my dad said, you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.
Cue the music "God Bless America", superimpose the flag, and slowly fade to black.....
Sorry, being paranoid is thinking that everyone of a certain group should be scrutinized because of some bad apples. Should all white people be subejcted to the same scrutiny because of those who deal drugs, commit murders, and bomb buildings? Or is it just because it's someone else and doesn't affect you?
"I have nothing to hide" is a cop out for "I don't care what the Constitution says or the protections it provides" all under the guise of flagwaving and "patriotism."
Last edited by Superguy; Nov 10, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Nov 10, 2007, 9:27 pm
#154
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Earlier this week I cleared security at BCN (Barcelona). While BCN isn't the size of MAD or other larger European airports, it is quite large and busy. It seems they are busy with construction of a new mid-field terminal as well.
While I had to present a passport at check-in (kind of a requirement for international travel), there were no ID checks or even boarding pass checks at the security checkpoint. No shoe removal either. @:-)
The only thing I had to remove was the liquid baggie and my laptop. The checkpoint was well managed and despite what seemed to be a long queue, the line moved quickly.
Eliminate the shoe carnival along with ID/BP checks and it's amazing how fast a security line moves. Allows the screeners, whom I believe are police officers at BCN, to focus on real threats.
Nov 10, 2007, 9:37 pm
#155
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I believe that Hawleyism will be equated with McCarthyism in a few years time. We didn't see any apologies then and we won't see any now. There is always a bit of excitement to see how a 200 year old Constitution can weather each attempt by professed patriots to unseat it in the name of security.
Nov 10, 2007, 10:08 pm
#156
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I believe that Hawleyism will be equated with McCarthyism in a few years time. We didn't see any apologies then and we won't see any now. There is always a bit of excitement to see how a 200 year old Constitution can weather each attempt by professed patriots to unseat it in the name of security.
Nov 10, 2007, 11:00 pm
#157
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Achtung, mein herrin.......The solution is so so so simple......used for a couple of decades very successfully in Europe .......
TSA PUTS A TATOO I.D. NUMBER ON YOUR ARM..........(with a bar code, for loading A380's).....and you follow every command without question.....not making any eye contact....never questioning the "processing".........
TSA PUTS A TATOO I.D. NUMBER ON YOUR ARM..........(with a bar code, for loading A380's).....and you follow every command without question.....not making any eye contact....never questioning the "processing".........
Nov 11, 2007, 4:29 am
#160
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If you pull up the .pdf file in the blog link, you'll see the second page. It's basically just fluff and the signature block.
What I find very curious about the letter is that the TSA sent it to a satelite office in southwestern VA rather than Warner's official Capitol Hill office.
What I find very curious about the letter is that the TSA sent it to a satelite office in southwestern VA rather than Warner's official Capitol Hill office.
Nov 11, 2007, 4:34 am
#161
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When I went to DCA recently, upon my observation of the TSA checking ID's, they weren't using the UV lights. They just looked at the ID's, initialed the BP's, and let the passenger by. When do they use UV lights? Simply when they find the ID to be suspicious or fake?
Nov 11, 2007, 4:50 am
#162
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This whole comparison to "Rosa Parks" is ridiculous. Parks involved the question of equality -- some citizens had more rights and privileges under the law than others. If only persons with Islamic names were ordered to show ID at the Airport, I could see the comparison. But that's obviously NOT what's happening. Everyone is being treated equally at the ID check.
Instead of equal treatment under the law, we're talking about privacy. Everyone knows, or should know, that the Constitution does not provide an absolute right to privacy. It's "balanced against the state's compelling interests. Such compelling interests include the promotion of public morality, protection of the individual's psychological health, and improving the quality of life." http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Privacy
As flawed as our airline security system may be, I can't imagine any court finding that -- in these times -- the gov't doesn't have a compelling interest in identifying potential airline terrorists. An ID check, no matter how flawed, assists in that effort and is obviously Constitutional. To argue otherwise is to express a personal opinion (which is also protected by the Constitution), but it is an opinion that has no plausible chance of becoming law.
So if it makes you feel good giving the TSA guys a hard time by not showing ID, go for it. But arguing that you're "defending the Constitition" is an act of self delusion. If you don't want to show your ID at the airport, contact your Congressman and ask him to pass a law ending the practice. But I'm 100% sure your efforts will be 100% unsuccessful. That's what sometimes happens in a democracy.
Instead of equal treatment under the law, we're talking about privacy. Everyone knows, or should know, that the Constitution does not provide an absolute right to privacy. It's "balanced against the state's compelling interests. Such compelling interests include the promotion of public morality, protection of the individual's psychological health, and improving the quality of life." http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Privacy
As flawed as our airline security system may be, I can't imagine any court finding that -- in these times -- the gov't doesn't have a compelling interest in identifying potential airline terrorists. An ID check, no matter how flawed, assists in that effort and is obviously Constitutional. To argue otherwise is to express a personal opinion (which is also protected by the Constitution), but it is an opinion that has no plausible chance of becoming law.
So if it makes you feel good giving the TSA guys a hard time by not showing ID, go for it. But arguing that you're "defending the Constitition" is an act of self delusion. If you don't want to show your ID at the airport, contact your Congressman and ask him to pass a law ending the practice. But I'm 100% sure your efforts will be 100% unsuccessful. That's what sometimes happens in a democracy.
As for laws, no law which is lacking a ethical or moral basis is legally valid, even if it is passed by legally elected representatives -- neither the German Reichstag or the US Congress, for example could legally authorise police to start rounding up and gassing jews, for example, even if legislation authorising such action were to be passed unanimously.
Nov 11, 2007, 5:34 am
#163
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Sign of the times, and it will look unmistakably goofy in 20 years.
Nov 11, 2007, 5:54 am
#164
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Ditto
Earlier this week I cleared security at BCN (Barcelona). While BCN isn't the size of MAD or other larger European airports, it is quite large and busy. It seems they are busy with construction of a new mid-field terminal as well.
While I had to present a passport at check-in (kind of a requirement for international travel), there were no ID checks or even boarding pass checks at the security checkpoint. No shoe removal either. @:-)
The only thing I had to remove was the liquid baggie and my laptop. The checkpoint was well managed and despite what seemed to be a long queue, the line moved quickly.
Eliminate the shoe carnival along with ID/BP checks and it's amazing how fast a security line moves. Allows the screeners, whom I believe are police officers at BCN, to focus on real threats.
Earlier this week I cleared security at BCN (Barcelona). While BCN isn't the size of MAD or other larger European airports, it is quite large and busy. It seems they are busy with construction of a new mid-field terminal as well.
While I had to present a passport at check-in (kind of a requirement for international travel), there were no ID checks or even boarding pass checks at the security checkpoint. No shoe removal either. @:-)
The only thing I had to remove was the liquid baggie and my laptop. The checkpoint was well managed and despite what seemed to be a long queue, the line moved quickly.
Eliminate the shoe carnival along with ID/BP checks and it's amazing how fast a security line moves. Allows the screeners, whom I believe are police officers at BCN, to focus on real threats.
This is the thing that most irritates me about the TSA -- they have never been able to give any sort of satisfactory answer to how it is every other country in the world can protect their air passengers without all the nonsene (you forgot to mention no aggressive agents barking orders at people) yet the USA cannot. Unfortunately, the USA has managed to force most other countries to adopt their liquids hysteria.
It really is amazing to me how all the Americans seem to have been brainwashed into accepting this. I was changing planes in HEL a few weeks back, having a coffee and some group of older Americans sits down at the next table and starts talking about the security procedure they just went through, saying it didn't seem secure enough. Then one added something to the effect, of "yes, when you are going to be on that plane for 9 or 10 hours its important that they check everyone." I had been silent up to that point, but then had to ask them, "what is a terrorist could do 8, 9 or 10 hours into a flight that they couldn't do 8 or 10 minutes into a flight?" They were all silent for a minute, then agreed the length of the flight didn't really matter. It just seems to me most Americans don't even bother to think through what it is they are being asked to do.
Nov 11, 2007, 5:57 am
#165
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It really is amazing to me how all the Americans seem to have been brainwashed into accepting this. I was changing planes in HEL a few weeks back, having a coffee and some group of older Americans sits down at the next table and starts talking about the security procedure they just went through, saying it didn't seem secure enough. Then one added something to the effect, of "yes, when you are going to be on that plane for 9 or 10 hours its important that they check everyone." I had been silent up to that point, but then had to ask them, "what is a terrorist could do 8, 9 or 10 hours into a flight that they couldn't do 8 or 10 minutes into a flight?" They were all silent for a minute, then agreed the length of the flight didn't really matter. It just seems to me most Americans don't even bother to think through what it is they are being asked to do.