Suspicious packages and dumping terminals
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Chevy Chase
Posts: 1,818
Suspicious packages and dumping terminals
I was talking to a good friend the other day that flies way more often than I do and works in the security world about TSA - security yada yada yada. He brought something up that I guess I never really thought about. What happens when the TSA or baggage handlers find a suspicious package? My answer was get the hell out of there asap and call the bomb squad. He agreed, but made a pretty good case that shouldn't the packages - if possible - be isolated until the bomb squad guys show up? It would both be safer, (he's the guy who always marvels at all the glass that new airports are made of and the potential problem if something were to blow up) and in many cases be able to keep the airports open and the planes flying. (Stick it in the bomb proof device and move it to a safer location for further examination).
Apparently, (he's a cop shop guy) he told me that current technology of pressure vessel based bomb containers makes it kind of impossible to have something at the terminal screening lines or where the checked baggage goes. They are just too big. But, he told me he told me about this small company (saw them at a trade show) that uses different technology that absorbs and contains blasts. They have sold them around the world but they aren't deployed everywhere in the US. Apparently the containers v. the pressure vessel based are smaller, lighter blah blah blah. The company is called Aigis and they are UK based. I took a look at their website, which isn't great, but if the product does what it says it does why aren't airports, airlines, TSA snapping these things up? (OK, I know what the TSA distracters will say and to a large extent I am among them). I'm all for figuring out if there is a problem, but what do you do when you find one?
Thoughts?
Apparently, (he's a cop shop guy) he told me that current technology of pressure vessel based bomb containers makes it kind of impossible to have something at the terminal screening lines or where the checked baggage goes. They are just too big. But, he told me he told me about this small company (saw them at a trade show) that uses different technology that absorbs and contains blasts. They have sold them around the world but they aren't deployed everywhere in the US. Apparently the containers v. the pressure vessel based are smaller, lighter blah blah blah. The company is called Aigis and they are UK based. I took a look at their website, which isn't great, but if the product does what it says it does why aren't airports, airlines, TSA snapping these things up? (OK, I know what the TSA distracters will say and to a large extent I am among them). I'm all for figuring out if there is a problem, but what do you do when you find one?
Thoughts?
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
The TSA has an irrational mindset that bags suddenly become highly unstable and might detonate at any moment once something is "found" and I don't see that ridiculous SOP changing. As soon as something "suspicious" is seen on the screen or the ETD, the SOP is to clear everyone away. Just like this week's LAX T-2 incident with fake novelty mortar rounds.
Doesn't matter that the odds of something actually exploding are too small to bother calculating - the "think of the children" and "anything is ok if it keeps us safe from (nonexistent) bombs" crowd will preach "safety" over sanity and rational response.
Doesn't matter that the odds of something actually exploding are too small to bother calculating - the "think of the children" and "anything is ok if it keeps us safe from (nonexistent) bombs" crowd will preach "safety" over sanity and rational response.
#3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near The Liberty Bell
Programs: DL, WN, AA
Posts: 361
The TSA has an irrational mindset that bags suddenly become highly unstable and might detonate at any moment once something is "found" and I don't see that ridiculous SOP changing. As soon as something "suspicious" is seen on the screen or the ETD, the SOP is to clear everyone away. Just like this week's LAX T-2 incident with fake novelty mortar rounds.
Doesn't matter that the odds of something actually exploding are too small to bother calculating - the "think of the children" and "anything is ok if it keeps us safe from (nonexistent) bombs" crowd will preach "safety" over sanity and rational response.
Doesn't matter that the odds of something actually exploding are too small to bother calculating - the "think of the children" and "anything is ok if it keeps us safe from (nonexistent) bombs" crowd will preach "safety" over sanity and rational response.
Last edited by PHLJJS; May 18, 2007 at 8:50 pm
#4
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Home: Arlington, VA; Home airports: IAD/DCA/BWI
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Posts: 4,095
In the UK, baggage with unresolvable alarms is stored in a bomb-proof area. In most cases, passengers are paged to open the bag in the bomb-proof area with police officers and security personnel. I don't know the exact location of it but I've heard it's in a remote area outside of the terminals.
In the event the passenger doesn't show up or if the bag highly likely contains a bomb, the bomb squad is called, and the bag is blown up. No terminal dumping required.
I don't know at what stage of the UK screening process it's done, but a bag may be sent to a decompression chamber to give a chance for potential bombs to detonate.
- Pat
In the event the passenger doesn't show up or if the bag highly likely contains a bomb, the bomb squad is called, and the bag is blown up. No terminal dumping required.
I don't know at what stage of the UK screening process it's done, but a bag may be sent to a decompression chamber to give a chance for potential bombs to detonate.
- Pat
#5
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Real black powder is an explosive and can be ignited by impact, not likely in that scenario but possible.
300' might have been overkill but caution is wise.
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Chevy Chase
Posts: 1,818
In the UK, baggage with unresolvable alarms is stored in a bomb-proof area. In most cases, passengers are paged to open the bag in the bomb-proof area with police officers and security personnel. I don't know the exact location of it but I've heard it's in a remote area outside of the terminals.
In the event the passenger doesn't show up or if the bag highly likely contains a bomb, the bomb squad is called, and the bag is blown up. No terminal dumping required.
I don't know at what stage of the UK screening process it's done, but a bag may be sent to a decompression chamber to give a chance for potential bombs to detonate.
- Pat
In the event the passenger doesn't show up or if the bag highly likely contains a bomb, the bomb squad is called, and the bag is blown up. No terminal dumping required.
I don't know at what stage of the UK screening process it's done, but a bag may be sent to a decompression chamber to give a chance for potential bombs to detonate.
- Pat
Gee, maybe the bomb guys wouldn't order a dump if they knew the device was isolated ...
#8
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Jose CA
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 149
2 of the last 3 times I've been in CGD they blew up abandoned bags. They apparently blow them up without moving them in a container from the big but sort of mufffled WHOMP. Never had anyone do that in the US.
#9
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: RTP
Programs: AA(EXP), BA, Hilton, Starwood
Posts: 1,250
At that point we had to send all the people away and establish a perimeter of 300 feet from the checkpoint. more members of the Bomb Squad arrived 10 minutes later to examine the M-80's and render them safe. After 45 minutes, we were able to re-open. Now I know that this was a real explosive, but they were basically fireworks that were under control of a LEO and were in no way going to cause danger to anyone. My opinion is the Officer overreacted, but he knows alot more about that stuff than I do.
Because I have. A form of blasting jelly stuffed into a bottle rocket by a very very stupid person. Biiiiig boom.
#10
Join Date: May 2004
Location: LAX
Programs: CO Platinum HHonors Diamond Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,312
There are more recent articles, but this one has a quote I love:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&type=politics
"'I don't have any criticisms of anyone,' said Kip Hawley, the assistant secretary for transportation security.'"
peace,
~Ben~
Last edited by seoulmanjr; May 23, 2007 at 4:41 am
#11
Join Date: May 2004
Location: LAX
Programs: CO Platinum HHonors Diamond Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,312
The TSA has an irrational mindset that bags suddenly become highly unstable and might detonate at any moment once something is "found" and I don't see that ridiculous SOP changing. As soon as something "suspicious" is seen on the screen or the ETD, the SOP is to clear everyone away. Just like this week's LAX T-2 incident with fake novelty mortar rounds.
Doesn't matter that the odds of something actually exploding are too small to bother calculating - the "think of the children" and "anything is ok if it keeps us safe from (nonexistent) bombs" crowd will preach "safety" over sanity and rational response.
Doesn't matter that the odds of something actually exploding are too small to bother calculating - the "think of the children" and "anything is ok if it keeps us safe from (nonexistent) bombs" crowd will preach "safety" over sanity and rational response.
Then what about the cavalier way they handle these potentially deadly and explosives items?!? I mean, they obviously aren't that worried about them mixing into something volatile in huge random heaps and exploding in public. So there.
Can any of the TSA apologists here explain to me why there's such a freak out about how dangerous the liquids potentially are to the aircraft, but no explosive/hazmat procedures are followed in their collection and disposal?
peace,
~Ben~
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Chevy Chase
Posts: 1,818
It looks like Houston has purchased these units. Apparently someone is thinking.
How about the Congress and/or TSA/DHS picking these up for all of the airports. Geez, at $25k a piece they seem relatively cheap by airport security standards.
http://www.click2houston.com/video/1...x.html?taf=hou and
http://www.kuhf.org/site/News2?JServ...s_iv_ctrl=1902
How about the Congress and/or TSA/DHS picking these up for all of the airports. Geez, at $25k a piece they seem relatively cheap by airport security standards.
http://www.click2houston.com/video/1...x.html?taf=hou and
http://www.kuhf.org/site/News2?JServ...s_iv_ctrl=1902