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Old Mar 9, 11, 4:05 pm   #76
  
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Originally Posted by onlyairfare View Post
I do not know if private room exams are more invasive, and I have no intention of finding out. I will not go into a private room with a stranger who intends to demand that I remove my clothing so that he or she can examine my genitalia.

I might hesitate to miss a flight "just because" of a groping as Representative Cissna did, because I believe it is better to demonstrate to the general public just how invasive these gropings are by letting them see the TSA in action. But to go alone into a room with such goons - I would rather miss my flight than do that.

With no cameras, and no impartial witness (I usually travel alone, though I could try to recruit another pax if one were willing), those TSO's could do anything they wanted to a passenger and there would be absolutely no recourse. "It never happened" would be "The Official Story."
Agree. I traveled in a dress this week (DTW) and there was no other option than the nudeoscope or pat down. (Of course airport employees were allowed to bypass the line and use the metal detector.) So, after opting for the pat down, I was conveniently forced to wait 10 minutes for one, to the point other male passengers were asking what was taking so long for them to get to me.

Then the female TSA employee, with daggers for her eyes, proceeded to not only complete the usual breast exam (top, bottom, around, and between the breasts), and then went up my skirt to ensure that the "space where my torso meets my legs" was free of any dangerous items. A thin piece of nylon was all that separated me from a full on sexual assault. Such a lovely start to my trip.
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Old Mar 9, 11, 5:21 pm   #77
  
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Agree. I traveled in a dress this week (DTW) and there was no other option than the nudeoscope or pat down. (Of course airport employees were allowed to bypass the line and use the metal detector.) So, after opting for the pat down, I was conveniently forced to wait 10 minutes for one, to the point other male passengers were asking what was taking so long for them to get to me.

Then the female TSA employee, with daggers for her eyes, proceeded to not only complete the usual breast exam (top, bottom, around, and between the breasts), and then went up my skirt to ensure that the "space where my torso meets my legs" was free of any dangerous items. A thin piece of nylon was all that separated me from a full on sexual assault. Such a lovely start to my trip.
Where's GSOLTSO? He claims this is NOT happening, it's NOT SOP. Baloney. He's not telling the truth, or his own agency isn't telling HIM the truth.

Here we go AGAIN!!!

Do you want this done to your own wife or kids, Mr. TSA agent....enjoy looking in the mirror.
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Old Mar 9, 11, 6:20 pm   #78
  
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Originally Posted by MemphisQueen View Post
Then the female TSA employee, wiih daggers for her eyes, proceeded to not only complete the usual breast exam (top, bottom, around, and between the breasts), and then went up my skirt to ensure that the "space where my torso meets my legs" was free of any dangerous items. A thin piece of nylon was all that separated me from a full on sexual assault. Such a lovely start to my trip.
Did she actually say that?
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Old Mar 9, 11, 7:00 pm   #79
  
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Did she actually say that?
Yup! I suppose it's their way of differentiating between the vaginal area and where they're running their hands. - making sure her hands are in that "crack" where they meet. Needless to say, nothing of national security was found in that area.
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Old Mar 9, 11, 7:17 pm   #80
  
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Yup! I suppose it's their way of differentiating between the vaginal area and where they're running their hands. - making sure her hands are in that "crack" where they meet. Needless to say, nothing of national security was found in that area.
That's funny cause it seems like half the adult population seems to keep a secret weapon right there!
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Old Mar 9, 11, 8:02 pm   #81
  
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I can accept that a bulky skirt or dress may enable the wearer to conceal something underneath and pose a security problem. I recall a story years ago where a shoplifter in a long dress stole a ham (or something along those lines) by pinching it between her knees and walking out of the store.

TSA is deliberately vague with the bulky clothing statement and most skirts would not normally be considered "bulky". Why TSA doesn't just own up to this and explicitly warn pax on their website that a skirt/dress could result in this type of encounter?

Most female travelers are not road warriors and most likely are unaware of the potential consequences of this fashion choice, which is regrettable. Fortunately many travel in jeans, shorts or slacks these days. Nonetheless, advance disclosure of this would be the responsible action, if TSA were run by responsible adults, which obviously isn't the case.
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Old Mar 9, 11, 8:08 pm   #82
  
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I recall a story years ago where a shoplifter in a long dress stole a ham ...
That's a HMD to TSA (Ham of Mass Destruction).
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Old Mar 9, 11, 9:25 pm   #83
  
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Even if I could/would hide WEI between my legs beneath a skirt, it could be easily detected by a TSO palpating or "sliding" their hands on the outside of my skirt, pressing the fabric against my legs. That is what other TSO's have done on subsequent exams when I wear a skirt and/or opt out, so there is no need for skin-on-skin other than prurient interest or a desire to humiliate the passenger.

The next two trips I took following that experience at PHX, I happened to be traveling with friends, so I requested that my friend be allowed to stand by with my cellphone camera to observe and film the event. In those 3 airports, when the groping was performed due to opt out or to wearing a skirt, it was far less invasive - back of the hand around the underwire of my bra but no breast or nipple squeeze, palpation of my waistband without putting hands inside underwear, and running the hands up and down my legs over the fabric, skipping the forceful punching of my crotch. With an observer present, they appeared inclined to follow the apparent "SOP."

I emailed my previous post to Representative Manuse in New Hampshire, thanking him for sponsoring the protective legislation, and letting him know that if the TSA is reined in successfully in NH, I will use the Manchester Airport (I've never been there so I don't even know the code, but a visit is in my future!) when I travel to Maine this summer.
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Old Mar 9, 11, 9:49 pm   #84
  
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Originally Posted by onlyairfare View Post
The next two trips I took following that experience at PHX, I happened to be traveling with friends, so I requested that my friend be allowed to stand by with my cellphone camera to observe and film the event. In those 3 airports, when the groping was performed due to opt out or to wearing a skirt, it was far less invasive - back of the hand around the underwire of my bra but no breast or nipple squeeze, palpation of my waistband without putting hands inside underwear, and running the hands up and down my legs over the fabric, skipping the forceful punching of my crotch. With an observer present, they appeared inclined to follow the apparent "SOP.
Again, this is consistent with the theme of women traveling alone or with small children being specially targeted by this vile agency.
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Old Mar 9, 11, 10:06 pm   #85
  
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I received a reply from Representative Manuse within minutes of my email to him. Impressive! Does he have his aides up this late? Is he getting so much mail response he's got a snazzy auto-reply set up already?

I am getting a "mailbox full" message when I attempt to forward to all Representatives and Senators tonight (I hope that is a very positive sign of vigorous response), so I will try again in the morning.

Somewhere here someone has already posted the local news papers in NH, and as Representative Manuse suggests, I will send a briefer version of this story as a Letter to the Editor, as soon as I find them - realistically, in the morning, or tomorrow after work

Here is his response, along with my original email:

//Dear Dr. Onlyairfare:

Thank you for sharing your unfortunate story with me regarding the abuse you sustained at the hands of the TSA. I appreciate your support and that you took the time to write me. To further help with my efforts, I would very much appreciate it if you would copy and paste your message to hreps@leg.state.nh.us and senators@leg.state.nh.us so that all the New Hampshire legislators can read your story for themselves. I think it is that important. I'd also urge you to contact the media, particularly the local media in New Hampshire, so they can hear firsthand of the problems that we are facing. Again, thank you for sharing your unfortunate story and for your support.

Sincerely,

ANDREW J. MANUSE
Republican State Representative
Rockingham District 5
3 Hilda Ave., Derry, N.H. 03038
O: 603-505-4793
M: 603-703-8857
eMail: andrew@andrewmanuse.com
Web: http://www.andrewmanuse.com
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On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 11:08 PM, <drOnlyairfare@deploresTSA.com> wrote:

To the Honorable Representative Manuse:

I am a family doctor working temporarily on the Navajo Reservation near Winslow, Arizona, though I am hoping to move to Maine this summer. I was very pleased to learn that New Hampshire is considering legislation to rein in the very abusive TSA and their invasive screening procedures. If you are successful in passing this legislation, I will be sure to use the Manchester Airport for my travels instead of Portland, Maine, where they use the same invasive techniques used in Flagstaff and Phoenix, and other airports I have to use.

I am a regular on the website FlyerTalk, where one of the other members mentioned that you might be able to use stories of personal experience to demonstrate just how out-of-control the TSA has become. That poster suggested I send to you my most recent post, from an event I endured in Phoenix' Sky Harbor Airport in October 2010. On this occasion, I did not refuse the "Nude-O-Scope" backscatter X-ray machine, as it was not in use at that checkpoint on that day. I did not alarm the Walk-Through Metal Detector either, but I was subjected to a body search/groping because of wearing a skirt, as I had come to the airport directly from work, where patients expect their doctor to wear professional looking clothes. Here is my story, which I also filed with EPIC and ACLU shortly after it occurred:

//My skirt was gathered at the waist, and thus very loose, so there was no reason for groping skin on skin beneath the skirt, and certainly no need to remove the skirt and put on a paper gown. I have worn that same skirt on subsequent screenings (I often wear skirt-suits for work, where I need to look professional) and the TSO's have not had any difficulty performing the groping from the outside, as per the "SOP" - though of course there should be no need for this intimate exam at all.

On most of my subsequent gropings, they have been done because I opt out. On this particular day, they were not using the Nude-O-Scope, just the WTMD, and I did not alarm it.

This occurred mid-October of 2010, before the November 1 PR explosion, so I was caught unawares, as I had read here the test sites were BOS and LAS.

Still I refused the repeated "offer" of a private room screening, saying in a loud enough voice so everyone in line could hear: No I want the general public to see how you treat an ordinary traveler who is just wearing a skirt as required for her work. Then I loudly reported each step of the process to the general public witnesses: Ah, I see you feel the need to squeeze my breasts. Oh you are checking my butt crack. So you have discovered I am wearing a panty liner - do you think it will explode? Do you need to check my vagina and rectum now too?

I hate to think what those two would have done to me had I been willing to go into a "private room" with them - and I told them that was the reason I was not going into a private room. I would not trust them or what they would do outside the public eye, and I let them know it.

Since this was before Nov 1, the TSO was not telling me each step in the process as is supposedly required - so I felt obliged to do my civic duty and let everyone in line know just what these rogues were up to. Perhaps because I am a doctor, such clinical language doesn't bother me, but I think the TSO was very embarrassed - which she richly deserved, and I also told her I thought it was beneath human dignity to accept and perform such exams as part of her job. I think only a pervert would willingly do such a job.

The supervisor who watched the whole thing was getting very angry, saying that I was being disruptive and disturbing other passengers with my "yelling." Of course I wasn't yelling, just speaking in a voice that carried well. And I told the supe that I was the one being disturbed, and they were disrupting my travel experience. I thought they should be ashamed of themselves, but they apparently have no shame. //

Representative Manuse, I filed a complaint card with the TSA regarding this, and never heard back from them. I suspect that the two TSO's involved in my body searched destroyed my card.

As a physician, I have serious reservations about the safety of these machines, as there is no safe dose of ionizing radiation, and doses are cumulative over a lifetime. These procedures should NEVER be used on pregnant women or young children for this very reason. A recent study published in BMJ (British Medical Journal) has shown that even a single X-ray done on a newborn will increase that child's lifetime risk of lymphoma - and that is professional equipment in a monitored medical setting with films taken by trained and licensed technicians, none of which applies to the TSA.

Feel free to use my story as needed so far as it helps you to illustrate your points and pass the legislation.

I am a long-term guest at the [Well-known hotel] in Flagstaff, Arizona and can be reached at 928-XXX-XXXX should you want or need to speak with me personally. Though I do have a cellphone (XXX-XXX-XXXX), it does not work on the reservation, so reaching me via the hotel is best. I leave for work about 7:30 - 8 am and return about 6 - 6:30 pm, MST.

Thank you for your defense of our 4th amendment rights. My father was a career military officer, and he would be rolling over in his grave if he were aware of this violation of the rights he fought for in WWII, and spent his 30 year career defending. I volunteer to do medical aid in Afghanistan and see the sacrifices our service members make now to defend us there - and this is what our government does to us at home. It is a disgrace.

Thank you again.

Sincerely,
Onlyairfare, M.D.
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Old Mar 9, 11, 11:35 pm   #86
  
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How many MILLIONS of bodies will they have to grope before they find ANYTHING worth the abuse they are perpetrating? As long as politicians don't yank their leash, they'll do this forever even if they never find anything. Which they won't since no one's gonna hide anything their. For which they will take credit and demand more money.

Politics is the only thing that ever solves this kind of irrationality. Reminds me of Prohibition where the booze was flowing freely, gangsters were killing over territory, and it might still be that way today except the economy crashed and the landslide election led to the immediate repeal of Prohibition. Security theater is exactly the same kind of irrationality.
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Old Mar 10, 11, 6:38 am   #87
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Link to local newspapers

OIF-great letter.

Link to local newspapers: Click on state and list of papers in that state comes up:


http://hometownnews.com/


What a contrast between email from NH Stae Rep. and Texas US Senator I received. I posted the Texas Senator's email on that link asking opinions about whether he was saying he was actually for or against the TSA bill.

Last edited by I'd Rather Walk; Mar 10, 11 at 6:53 am
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Old Mar 10, 11, 7:07 am   #88
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OIF:

Dont know if it would do any good but wouldn't hurt to copy your story to US Congressman CHaffetz,

http://chaffetz.house.gov/

To get to his email you have to put in 84601 as the zip code, I fill out the email form with my correct name, address and info but leave the zip code. Maybe they ignore these emails, I'm not sure.
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Old Mar 10, 11, 8:04 am   #89
  
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I will follow up on those suggestions tonight after work, as I need to get going.

But I want you all to know of my KUDOS for the State of New Hampshire!!

This morning I received a response to my email from another NH legislator, expressing her support of the bill, her regret at my unfortunate experience, and detailing her own unfortunate experiences at the hands of TSA because of her own medical condition which prompted gropings after passage through the Nude-O-Scope. She too lodges complaints with the appropriate agencies.

I asked her if my letter successfully reached her despite the "mailbox full" response I received. I have not resent yet, because if the message got through I don't want to be a pest about it. But if she received it because Representative Manuse direct-forwarded to some, I will use the "all legislators route."

I'll try and monitor all this during the day, but reality strikes - days are busy in a family practice office! But I am heartened that maybe we are really starting to see our protests finally take effect.
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Old Mar 10, 11, 8:20 am   #90
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When us little people complain, no one listens. I hope national poticians are paying attention to their state counterparts.

It gets even stranger- from Safety Equipment Removed From Planes thread:

"It's a risk you take when boarding an airplane. You should know. People can die," one airline industry veteran said on condition of anonymity.

You can risk pax lives by doing this, I'd rather the equipment be left and don't sexually assault me.
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