IAN-UK

Is the agent hoping to offer you an alternative tour ?

In the normal course of events, there's nothing remotely dangerous about visiting Giza.

If something sinister is planned for tomorrow, then I'd worry about staying at a hotel where a receptionist has inside knowledge of such things.

thegrailer

Great reply and pretty accurate. I ended up going on the tour. Tour guide noted hotel clerks, for the most part, tell every guest that it is too dangerous to go to Giza. It wasn't. That being said, the St Dept. warning regarding locals swarming cars as they enter is spot on. Street full of locals screaming that "taxis" (I wasn't in a taxi) aren't allowed and that only horse or camels were permitted up to the pyramids. Lots of banging on the car and screaming at the driver and guide. If you aren't a local and cannot speak Arabic, do not drive to Giza. Taxis are probably just as bad. Further, even after beating that gauntlet, more locals were crowded into the room where tickets to the site are checked. The same story was repeated, horses and/or camel transportation was required. Great visit to Cairo, and it didn't seem unsafe, however, I wouldn't go many places without a guide/ native Arabic speaker.

Cheers

IAN-UK

I'm pleased you didn't buckle (to the receptionist or the touts ), and I hope you enjoyed the tour. An eye-opener, at least!

It's all rather sad. Guiding and selling camel/horse rides is the living for many families - either directly or through some Mr Big. They have horses to feed and care for as well as looking after families.

They're frantic for business in the tourism downturn, and work themselves into a frenzy of dissociation where they believe the nonsense of no cars allowed. But of course that very attitude frightens away potential customers, the ones who haven't been scared off by the hotel receptionists .....

thegrailer

It was sadder at, for example, Memphis or the step pyramid or other "lesser" sites where I had the entire complex to myself and the sellers had no one to even try to sell to.

As an addition to my last post, the locals swarmed the car within 10 meters of the ak47 armed security folks. It was a bit surreal for a couple of minutes --- well armed security spitting distance from potentially bad news and just doing nothing about it.

Canuck2012

The management at the Pyramids is quite the travesty. Donors such as Japan and EU have pumped in tens of millions of dollars to rejuvenate the sites, yet it all comes down to having good management. Hopefully when the Grand Egyptian Museum finally opens in a couple year, organization will improve (one hopes).

rivlinm

Exact same for me in Memphis, Saquara and the bent pyramid; but even the touts didn't waste their time. My guide and I were the only humans within a mile of those sites. (jan14)

I haven't been in 18 months, but still wouldn't hesitate to suggest anyone visit now. Having a guide and NOT driving are the caveats, but next time I visit I would give the metro/taxi combo a shot.

I'd actually feel less at ease on the red sea resorts based on similar attacks across the region and everyone's guard being down compared to the city based attractions. But that's just me.

thegrailer

In BKK now so a few beers in but I'd add to the above a trip to the Coptic section of Cairo and a visit to Al-Azhar park. Both safe with a ton of well armed folks in and around the Coptic area. The bazaar was kind of crazy and another place I would highly recommend going with a guide.

Cheers

IAN-UK

Siding with the police for a moment ... I'm guessing they clocked he situation (one repeated many times each day) and recognised it as one that posed no threat to you.

Surely you didn't expect them to weigh in with rifle butts to drive away the hoardes?

It's far from being an ideal situation, but localised civil unrest is always an egg-shell away in the current Egypt situation and the police are clearly unwilling to provoke it.

thegrailer

I surely didn't mention rifle butts and surely didn't even come close to suggesting using them on the locals. As such, please don't build up and knock down that strawman. I also surely didn't expect that the armed folks would be so nonchalant about the hoards banging on the car and pretty much having their way with a car full of people entering Giza (a car that included two Cairo locals). There was no line of cars. There wasn't much else going on. The locals simply stand yards away from the guards and harass folks with no one doing anything to stop it. And it isn't benign. If I was a less experienced traveler, I would have been scared to death and would warn all my friends and family away. As it is, based on my experience, I wouldn't suggest Giza for anyone without a local guide.

As for the rest of your comment, in my time walking through old and new Cairo, "touristing" (my made up term) around Tahrir Square, and eating koshari and drinking tea with locals, there was a calm that one doesn't see on the news. Maybe I'm simply too optimistic, albeit I'm no Pollyanna, but at no point did it seem as if the country, or at least Cairo, was an egg-shell away from civil unrest (Bahrain seemed more on edge back in Feb when I visited and even that wasn't egg shell thin). Additionally, according to my guide, the place is pretty restful these days - the population in general that is (notwithstanding the recent terror attacks and the ongoing terror activities in Sinai [and certainly not dismissing what these attacks do to a population]). Further, protecting tourists, a lifeline of dollars, pounds, and euros (as you've suggested - I agree), would seem to be high on the list for policing activities. Unfortunately, this specific need for policing has been disregarded at Giza. Moreover, when the security apparatus wants to act, in ways that you suggest might cause civil unrest, they do. The hoards at the airport hawking taxis are routinely thrown out of the arrivals building with much yelling, and some pushing and shoving. So contrary to what you might have seen or experienced, I've seen "the man" break eggs to protect (?) tourists with no reaction from the locals (outside of the back and forth yelling). I witnessed these omelets being made as I waited for the Le Meridien shuttle to arrive for my ride from terminal to hotel (it was very late so I had the pleasure of watching the eggs scrambled for too long).

Now back to security:

Tahrir Square felt like a tourist attraction rather than the focal point of a revolution. It felt safe and many locals were out and about taking pictures with the big Egyptian flag in the background. Walking around also seemed safe - I did have a guide and we were just folks walking down the streets rather than a group with headsets following a flag so that may have made a difference. For reference, it felt safer walking in Cairo at night than it did walking in Rio at night from the end of the Santa Teresa tram to the nearby subway station (that was a few years ago but it is my reference for not feeling safe at all).

Cheers

DanielW

Huge car bomb outside the Italian consulate in Cairo this morning. Massive damage but luckily only one killed (so far): http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...bassy-in-cairo

DanielW

ISIS have claimed the consulate bombing, saying a 450 kg bomb was used: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/wo...airo.html?_r=0

IAN-UK

oops! Not interesting enough to post twice...

IAN-UK

You overplay the eggshell metaphor without understanding the political and social situation in Egypt that's behind my comment.

The eggshell situation doesn't relate directly to tourism. It relates to the underlying tensions in Egyptian society, where sections of the population resent among other things the re-implantation of the (not so) ancien régime, and are more than ready to take to the streets again: under these conditions, policing can be a delicate business.

The area of Giza approaching the pyramids is a very special neighbourhood, living off tourism: visitors put food on the table and in the bellies of the camels and donkeys.

There's little or no meaningful social assistance when times are hard, when tourists are few, and when the few arrive with their own "outside" guides.

This makes residents desperate and also vulnerable to the ear-worms transmitted by radical groups. The police and security services are not universally popular. They are aware that it wouldn't take much to spark local trouble: and in Egypt local trouble spreads quickly.

I wasn't there, but I doubt you were under any threat of violence. The "mob" were local tour guides over-reacting because they are desperate for clients. They were seeking your custom, not your life. Or for all I know, you could have trundled into an already troubled situation. Perhaps you misunderstood all this, but the police did not. They see it all the time. And for reasons I outlined above they will be unwilling to intervene.

Now, should the policy for security around the pyramids (the the new museum) change? That's a different question: the one I'm addressing is why local police appeared disinterested by your predicament.

SFOPhD

Hi all. I'm considering a short four day trip to Cairo as a solo male traveler in March and am having second thoughts. Since the late update to this thread there have been:

2 policemen killed near pyramids:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/wo...-pyramids.html
4 policemen killed near pyramids:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/wo...-shooting.html
Hotel shooting near pyramids:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016...gypt.html?_r=0
2 policemen killed near pyramids:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6803746.html

And also the Red Sea Resort incidents.

Thoughts? I know there is never a black or white "go or don't go," so informed comments on recent experiences or local information would be greatly appreciated.

747FC

Just a thought: What is your next most-valued option for four days?