IMOA

The other consideration with the rail pass is that you can only use hikaris and kodamas on the tokaido shinkansen line, usually this isn't that big a deal but on such a tight itinerary I would tend towards paying the little bit extra and using the nozomi

Personally I think staying at nrt is a big mistake, with an itinerary this tight I would definitely be staying in town, preferably close to tokyo station. On arrival I'd use the bus to tcat (as it leaves every 10 minutes and only takes about 50 mins at this time of night) and a taxi from there to the hotel. This will hardly take any extra time on the first night, is dead easy, and will give you a lot of extra time in kyoto (effectively close to half a day extra)

Pureboy

Certainly an ambitious itin! Are there specific things or types of experiences you are looking for? That would give us a better idea of things to suggest.

RichardInSF

I agree and suggested it above but it seems that the OP is determined to stay at Narita (note it's the first night only).

There is an express on the Keisei line as late as 10:41pm and the last bus to TCAT is at 11:00pm. Last local train is at 11:04pm.

However, on a first trip to Japan, I could see how someone might not want to take the chance of not being able to catch the last train with a flight scheduled to arrive at 9:25pm. It could be late. Also, a night at the Hilton in Narita is pretty cheap in Hhonors points.

The schedule is very aggressive, if they aren't absolutely determined to visit Kyoto, I'd suggest substituting a day trip to Kamakura instead to get a taste of temples and just stay in Tokyo the whole time.

serfty

Thankyou for the information;

The 'rough Itinerary' was a compromise betwixt my desires and To Market To Market's.

Ok, if we lose Kyoto and stay in Tokyo for three days, are there any recommendations on how to get a good look at Mt Fuji, perhaps as a (½?) day trip ex Tokyo?

I guess we can do temple/garden/sukara(late/if any?) around Tokyo.

Pureboy

I wouldn't waste a half-day with Mt. Fuji, especially with such limited time. If the weather is clear enough to get a view of Fuji from either a tall Tokyo vantage point, like Metropolitan towers in Shinjuku or Tokyo Tower, or if you can catch it during a shinkansen trip, go with that. Being near or on Mt Fuji is pretty underwhelming, and is usually done to scratch off your list rather then for the "incredible experience."

Of course, others might disagree, but I imagine a day trip out of Tokyo to Nikko or Kamakura would be much more rewarding. (Haven't done them myself due to weather, but they are definitely on my list for next time).

IMOA

I'd agree. That said, I do enjoy hakone so rather than looking at Fuji as being the destination it could be more along the lines of a night at an onsen, a ride in a pirate ship, amazake at a teahouse and fuji as a backdrop

I don't think it's that crazy to do a dash for kyoto so I wouldn't rule that out too quickly. The shinkansen is quick and exceptionally flexible with schedules and the destination is amazing. The important thing though is if you do go for kyoto you need to look to get as close to two full days as possible, imo that means leaving tokyo 7ish to arrive 9:30ish. If you don't get out of tokyo until late morning and leave mid the next afternoon you've not seen enough of kyoto and you've blown a lot of time.

And for fear of whipping a dead horse, if I was arriving at nrt at 9:25pm I'd be expecting to be in my hotel room in tokyo between 11 and 11:15

serfty

Again, Thankyou for the replies ... much to consider

We certainly had planned to be in Koyoto by Noon; that does require an early start.

After discussion, we are now considering 2 nights at Kyoto and one in Tokyo or even a late shinkansen departure from Kyoto after the one night there.

That estimate was conservative; I would hope to be in the room by 10pm.

abmj-jr

It looks like this response got a bit garbled but it seems that you are considering: First night at Hilton-NRT
Fri, Sat at Kyoto
Sun at Tokyo or maybe stay in Kyoto
Monday, late departure from NRT.

The Hilton shuttle will get you to and from the hotel-NRT. The Narita Express will then get you from NRT to Tokyo Station or Shinagawa Station. It runs several times per hour during the daytime, less frequently late at night.

The Hikari shinkansen will get you from Tokyo or Shinagawa Station to Kyoto Station in approximately 2:45 and runs at least 2x per hour - more often during some periods. The Nozomi would shave about 20 minutes off the time but is not covered by the JR Rail Pass. If you do not use the Pass, the cost differential between Hikari and Nozomi is only a few hundred yen but for your itinerary, the Pass will save you some money for very little extra time.

Your idea to leave "early" should take into consideration that the N'Ex will take over an hour to get to Tokyo Station. I'd add a personal editorial comment that only an idiot tries to navigate Tokyo Station at 7:00 am - 8:30 am on a weekday - particularly if a first-timer. I'd probably try to plan the trains to get me to Tokyo Station around 8:30-9:00 and a 9:30-10:00 am shinkansen to Kyoto, getting me there in time for lunch. YMMV.

Depending on your departure time, it is possible to leave directly from Kyoto to NRT via Tokyo or better yet Shinagawa Station, connecting via the N'Ex. The Rail Pass covers the N'Ex. Frankly, I'd be inclined to return to Tokyo Sunday and have 2 half-days plus one night in the lights and glitter of the City. Again, YMMV.

If you haven't found it yet, Hyperdia is your friend. http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/hyperWeb.cgi .
If using the Rail Pass, be sure to check the box to "Exclude Nozomi."

JR

jib71

Is 8:30-9:00 any better than 7.00-8.30? It's worse, in my experience.
Rather than delaying departure, I'd suggest taking the Narita Express to Shinagawa station and transfering to Shinkansen there. Much easier.

serfty

This is why I love FlyerTalk - a brilliant Idea ... ^

Also, we are thinking it may work to catch the N'EX at Narita Town rather than at the airport. Or would it be better to start from NRT T1 in terms of seating? Thinking includes:The timings work out that departing ~8am and having at least thirty minute transits at Narita Town and Shinagawa should get us to Kyoto by 1:30pm.

RichardInSF

Good catch, I've never arrived at NRT at the right time to get on a N'Ex that stops at Narita Town!

The only problem if you get a JR pass is that converting an exchange order to an actual pass at Narita airport can't be done after 9:45pm. So the plane would have to be on time, you'd have to make it through immigration, collect any checked baggage, get through customs, and get downstairs to the JR ticket office in 20 minutes.

This sounds like a heck of a race to me! I guess you can try and if you fail, come back to the airport the next day. If you do try, at that hour the normal exchange office is closed and exchanges are carried out at the ticket window.

There is no exchange location in Narita town.

abmj-jr

Agree 100%, regardless of departure time. I actually meant Shinagawa even though my tired old brain typed Tokyo. <sigh>

serfty

So the times on this timetable showing Narita are for information only?

http://jreast-shinkansen-reservation...x_u/index.html

[edit]Ahhh .. so I was correct, but still not likely to succeed in that plan. Oh well, the shuttle to the Airport leaves every 15 minutes - no point in rushing around the evening before.[/edit]

RichardInSF

Nope, you're right, I misspoke (and corrected it above), but there is another potential problem I highlighted there!

serfty

We will be staying two nights Kyoto and we are planning the Saturday morning Itinerary, in some detail to include our "Must Do"'s. Friday and Saturday afternoon will be somewhat more loosely planned with whatever else we can comfortably fit in.

Have been discussing things with to market to market and our Kyoto priorities are:

• Kiyomizu-dera,
• Maruyama park,
• the "philosopher's walk" &
• Ginkakuji.

Some of the other possibilities are:

• Imperial Palae,
• Kinkakuji,
• Ryoanji &
• Nijojo.

Now, my beloved read the following:Now "little pottery shops and souvenir stores." are the sort of thing that can keep her occupied for hours, so these need to be included.

It seems our best option will be to start from Kyoto Station. (We are staying in Osaka, where I have been before, near Osaka JR Station. - I know it's a train change at shin-osaka, but so be it)

I have managed to identify some of the locations (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=d&s...28667&t=h&z=15) which are quite close together. I am struggling with the location of the "Sannenzaka Slope" and the location of these shops. Also can't quite pin down the "Philosopher's Walk" between Maruyama Park and Ginkakuji.

Can any assist with this and any further advice, please.