codex57

Thanks. Man, these award flights change quick. So it's the same "ticket", but the last leg is the last flight of the day. Asiana's website is the worst airline website I've ever seen (granted I've only seen a handful of international airlines' sites), but I found Youtube videos explaining how Incheon works. It sounds like I just need to go through a basic security checkpoint along with filling out some forms, and then just go up one level and I'm there. Don't even leave the terminal.

Definitely much simpler than, say, SFO or LAX.

Thanks everyone. I booked flights to start in Osaka and fly out of Haneda at the end of the trip. Easing into Japan sounds like a good idea. This is my first international trip to a non-English speaking country where I'm in charge of everything so I'm a little nervous.

angra

Japan can be confusing, but the chances of something really horrible going wrong that you can't recover from is really slim, in my experience. Allow yourself time, and permission, to get a little lost fairly often, and you should be fine. In the big cities and major tourist sites there will be lots of people that can speak enough english to get you through in a jam.

evergrn

1:10 connection at Incheon is fine, if on same ticket. I've done something similar there. The transit is pretty painless as you say. I think it's perfect that you're starting your trip in Kansai and doing Tokyo later. I would just stay at one hotel for Kyoto/Osaka/Kobe, as all those places are fairly close to each other.

codex57

Thank you. You answered another question I had. Looking at the map, it seemed they're really close, but I wasn't positive. Any suggestions as to which city to base out of?

I heard Osaka is cheaper, but I'm thinking maybe Kyoto because that seems to be what everyone else wants to do and some people have been telling me that Osaka is more of a day trip kind of city if we've already got a bunch of Tokyo days planned (to get the big Japan city experience).

evergrn

Assuming Kyoto is a place of great interest to you, I would stay in Kyoto. You can do day trips from Kyoto to Osaka, Nara, Kobe, even Hiroshima. It is true that you generally get better value for your hotel in Osaka. If the price differences are too substantial, then I would base myself in Osaka (ideally around Umeda). But again I think you're better off trying to find a place in Kyoto on this trip which is going to be your first to Japan.

cowie

Great advice here, although I wish to add that, having just done that Kyoto-Osaka-Nara-Kobe-Hiroshima circuit a couple of months ago, I find the attractions in Kyoto so spread out that there isn't an ideal "central" location to stay in the city. In other words, you won't save that much travel time staying in Kyoto because you'd be shuttling across town on buses and taxis (and occasionally, on the sparse subway network). Whereas if you stay in Osaka, the sheer number of railways from the Umeda area -- it's a huge travel hub -- that converge onto Kyoto (arriving into different parts of the city) will take you anywhere you'd want to be within the hour.

If you find a great deal on a hotel -- or even an Airbnb -- in Umeda, don't be afraid to jump on it. Prices in Kyoto will be expensive during Hanami. In my research for the 2017 season, about twice as much as an equivalent in Osaka.

codex57

That's great advice, thank you.

I'll look into Umeda. Is there any particular place in Kyoto that you would recommend that I look into?

We like the temples, bamboo forest, etc. All that ancient Japanese culture stuff. Tokyo will have plenty of modern city stuff. I have a relative who loves Osaka over Tokyo, but none of her descriptions appeal to me much. Other friends I have think just a day or so of Osaka is enough if I'm going to Tokyo.

evergrn

In Kyoto, I actually recommend staying right by the Kyoto station, even though it's not really close to any major sights. Reasons are as follows:
-- If you're staying several nights in Kyoto with plans to do a couple of day trips by train, it'd be very convenient to be right next to Kyoto Station.
-- Along those lines, it'd also be convenient getting in from KIX (you'd be able to get off the airport express train Haruka from KIX and then walk right to the hotel instead of having to transfer).
-- Kyoto Station area has many decent hotel options that are reasonably priced relative to certain other parts of town.
-- While Kyoto Station area is not close to historical sights, it is located fairly centrally. If you're going to take the bus to different sights, many bus routes originate from Kyoto Station. Fushimi Inari is a quick train ride away.
-- Kyoto Station complex itself is quite an attraction with striking architecture and tons of shopping/dining.

Having said all of this, I've been to Kyoto a lot and I don't find it as interesting as Tokyo or Osaka. Plus I personally like staying at Hilton (or comparable foreign brand) while not having to pay a lot. That's why I've recently been tending to base myself in Osaka or Kobe over Kyoto. Umeda is perfect, because the area has a lot of 4~4.5 star options with better value than in Kyoto. Plus Umeda has tons of shopping/dining and is very convenient to either Kyoto Station or Kawaramachi (which to me is the real center of Kyoto). But again, for your purpose, my sense is that you're still better off staying in Kyoto as long as the price differences aren't outrageous.

As far as hotels near Kyoto Station, three good ones in moderate price range that come to mind are Grand Via, Kintetsu and Keihan Grande. Grand Via is nice but tends to be pricier than the other two. I just stayed at Keihan Grande a few months back... it's not quite as nice as Grand Via, but it's new and very clean and very convenient. Across the street from Kyoto Station and being next to DonkiHote is a major plus!

codex57

Thank you for listing specific hotels. That's especially helpful as I'm only familiar with Western brands. I have access to cheap Hyatt rates, so that's always my fallback. The only issue is we have 2 adults and 2 children. It's looking like I'll be booking an AirBnB at some point in this trip.

We get into KIX at 8:50 PM. Does another hour sound reasonable for going through immigration, baggage claim, and then train ticket purchase? That means 9:50 PM which sounds kind of late. I have no idea if we'll be tired or not due to jet lag and if we're getting too close to when stuff starts shutting down (like restaurants or convenience stores if needed). The public transit stays open til about midnight, right? Wondering if I should stay in Osaka for a night or two, and then a few days in Kyoto, or just all 5-6 nights in Kyoto?

abmj-jr

Hotel Granvia is actually in the Kyoto Station building, which is why Evergrn mentioned that it is very convenient. The extra cost over some other hotels is because of such convenience.

My favorite places to stay in Kyoto are elsewhere but I agree that for a newcomer who will be doing out-of-town day trips, the station area is very convenient. In addition to several decent hotels, there are numerous places to eat and a huge underground shopping mall that has everything, with an entrance right in the station building, next to the subway entrance.

There are several dedicated tourist buses that depart from the bus center right outside the north (Karasuma) entrance of Kyoto Station. A bus route map, called the Bus Navi, will show all the routes in color codes. The pink routes are the specials, numbers 100, 101 and 102. One of them runs right by virtually every major tourist site in the city. You can pick up a hard copy at the bus center office or the Tourist Information Center on the 9th floor of Kyoto Station.

http://www.ainablog.com/wp-content/u.../bus-kyoto.pdf

EDIT: I just noticed you are a party of 4. For that size, you might find cabs to be almost as cost effective for many sites in Kyoto.

codex57

FWIW, for most of the time, we'll be sightseeing with another family of 4. In terms of taxis, I imagine the most we'd generally be able to fit is 4 in a cab anyways, correct? So it still wouldn't make much difference if we all took a bus/train vs 2 cabs for most sites in Kyoto?

Kyoto Station looks amazing. It does seem like a really good place to be based out of.

jphripjah

I agree with everything this poster said.

ksandness

That's a great map, even better than the one they used to have. Kyoto has a bus pass sold in 24-hour increments for 500 yen. That's dirt cheap even if you buy it for four people. (I once used the last couple of hours of one of those passes to go to a minshuku in Ohara.)

Are the buses still color-coded?

codex57

500 yen? That's insanely cheap. I'm sure we'll get that.

Still trying to figure out whether the JR Rail pass is worth it and hyperdia. It'd be a lot easier if I were more familiar with all the stops. $400+ seems like a lot when I'm seeing some AirBnB places that are only a little over $600 for 6 nights.

FlitBen

The problem with buses is that they can be slow to wait for, board, and ride when there's much traffic. If you're moving around as a group of four on most days, try taking advantage of local taxis in Kyoto. Use this site to simulate taxi fares vs. individual bus or train tickets, using Kyoto Station as your base: https://www.taxifarefinder.com/main....-Japan&lang=en

You should be able to combine local JR trains and taxis economically as a group of four, for routes such as San-In line to Saga-Arashiyama and Emmachi stations, or Nara line to Demachiyanagi (using Keihan railway as well). From these, take a taxi to the various groves, temples, and steps. Whereas, Fushimi-Inari is close enough to the local station for a walk.

East/Northeast to Higashiyama old district or Maruyama park area is also economical by taxi for 3-4 people. Karasuma subway line to Kitaoji station plus taxi may also work as well.

This combo method works particularly well if you can already justify a Kansai Area/Wide Area Pass for trips further away like Himeji and Kobe, using the rest of the days for local trains. Or the Haruka airport trains if you're staying around Shin-Osaka for budget and convenience reasons, which is what our group did at the tail end of this year's sakura season.