bhrubin

As an SPG loyalist interested in the possibility of a Starwood-IHG merger, I was curious as to what IHG/IC loyalists think are the best IC properties around the world..and in the USA.

I'm also curious as to how IHG loyalists think these best IC properties stack up against the different categories for SPG. Any thoughts and insight will be appreciated!

Land-of-Miles

Depends upon status I think. For me IC HKG, IC LIS, iC Park Lane London are far better than any Starwood in those Cities. RA treatment is also so much better than SPG Plat. I do hope that it isn't gifted to inbound SPG Plats as that will dilute it's exclusivity.

nicolas75

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/inter...nd-europe.html

nicolas75

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/inter...n-merged.html?

patchan8984

Thalasso ...

bhrubin

I wanted to start a new thread since the linked one above hasn't had a post since 2011. Too much has changed since then for that thread to have much significance today.

355F1

IC SF is my favorite hotel in the U.S.

I also really like the IC Prague.

i am staying at the IC Hong Kong for the first time in September....and from what I hear...I think it's going to be my new favorite hotel in the world.

stimpy

Make sure you book a harbor view room and it will be. It's certainly the best IC in the world.

For the US I like the IC Chicago as it is historical and has great views and suites on the upper levels. IC LA was just renovated and has excellent suites. I would say that IC downtown Miami has the best Club in the US. And it's way better than any US Starwood club. It's almost like a Euro club.

Around the world there are plenty of cities where the IC is far better than the Starwood offerings. In Paris there are two IC's that are better than any of the Starwood hotels. As stated above, London is another example of that. In fact in just about any city in Europe where there is an IC, it's better than any Starwood in that town. Rome, Lisbon, Dusseldorf, Madrid, etc. Can anyone think of an example where Starwood is better in Europe? Or Asia? Maybe Bangkok where the Sheraton SGS could be seen as better than the IC, but not by much.

I feel very strongly that the rumoured merger would be a very bad thing for us frequent travelers. I'm both SPG Plat and IC RA and I'd like them to remain separate. But I also realize that Starwood investors would like very much to be bought out and IHG exec management has massive growth in their eyes. That's why the rumours exist.

Kimsbrand

IC Osaka is an absolutely outstanding IC imho. From the moment the elevator door opens and you enter the lobby everything is just as it has to be in a 5* hotel. Rooms are new and with an overwhelming design. View is fantastic (depends on the side your room is located).Maybe you see I liked my stay there...

In europe I would say IC Berlin is hard to beat, especially with Club Access. IC Le Grand is also amazing, but it has a very different style compared to Berlin (different, not worse).

Land-of-Miles

I am torn on Bangkok. Some things are much better in the SGS, with a suite upgrade at the SGS it is probably a no brainer but that is becoming ever more elusive as a Plat.

Jerryxe

It's not better than St. Regis at Bora Bora...

stimpy

Thanks for reminding me about St. Regis. That would win hands down in Bangkok too. And New York of course. There's a lot of new St. Regis hotels coming soon so that would definitely be a strong rival to Intercontinental in the cities where they both exist.

But that brings up another thought. Both Starwood and IHG have a wide list of brands. If the two merge, it would be possible, maybe even likely, that one or more of these brands spins off on their own. Maybe St. Regis and Intercontinental spin off into a new luxury chain. Or they dump the Sheraton chain onto a competitor.

bhrubin

I wouldn't agree. I've stayed at both ICs in Paris and I prefer the Westin (location) and Prince de Galles (most luxurious of them all). But both ICs are wonderful, to be sure.

IC Park Lane definitely wins in London. No argument.

Easy cowpoke! There are many examples where you may have forgotten or been unaware:

Europe--there are plenty of cities where there isn't an IC but there are good SPG options...and some cities where the SPG option is better (London and Paris are notable exceptions)

Vienna: SPG's Imperial and Bristol are more luxurious than IC
Salzburg: Schloss Fuschi and Goldener Hirsch
Sofia: Balkan
Prague: Augustine will give IC a run for its money
Helsinki: Kamp
Paris: Prince de Galles and Westin Vendome beat/can compete with ICs
Athens: Grand Bretagne and King George can compete with IC
Crete: Blue Palace Resort is amazing
Florence: StR and Westin Excelsior
Milan: Excelsior Galila likely better than IC
Rome: StR and Westin Excelsior beat IC
Venice: StR, Gritti, Danieli win
Hague: des Indes
Warsaw: Bristol and Westin
Moscow: StR and National beats IC
St. Petersburg: W wins
Belgrade: Metropole
Barcelona: W
Madrid: Westin Palace is comparable to IC
Mallorca: StR wins
San Sebastian: Maria Cristina wins
Seville: Alfonso XIII wins
Stockhold: Sheraton
Verbier: W
Ankara: Lugal wins
Istanbul: StR wins, W comparable to IC
Odessa: Bristol wins
Scotland: Trump Turnberry

Asia--IC has more properties, but SPG has better properties overall and more in the pipeline:

Siem Reap: Le Meridien Angkor wins
Beijing: StR beats IC, plus 2 Westins and W
Guangzhou: W and 2 Westins
Shenzen: StR and Westin
Sanya: StR and Westin, with another StR coming
Nanjing: Grand Mansion, with StR coming
Xian: Westin, with W coming
Chengdu: StR, with W and Westin coming
Tianjin: StR, Astor, Westin
Lhasa: StR
Goa: W coming
Bangalore: 2 ITCs
Mumbai: 2 ITCs, StR and W coming
Delhi: 2 ITCs
Hyderabad: ITC, Westin
Agra: ITC
Kolkatta: ITC, Westin coming
Bali: StR, Laguna, Westin comparable if not better than IC
Jakarta: StR, W, Westin coming
Kyoto: Suiran and Westin comparable if not better than IC
Osaka: StR better than a great IC
Seoul: W, Westin, and Parnas coming
Macau: StR coming
Kuala Lumpur: Westin, StR and W coming comparable if not better than IC
Langkawi: Andaman with StR coming
Maldives: W, with StR coming
Singapore: StR, W, Westin
Taipei: W, Westin
Bangkok: StR, W, Westin, Sheraton Grand all better than the terrible IC
Koh Samui: W Retreat
Phuket: Naka Island, Westin, W coming
Ho Chi Minh: Le Meridien

South Pacific:

Bora Bora: StR wins over ICs
Fiji: Westin and 3 Sheraton Resorts comparable to IC


The merger may or may not be bad for frequent travelers. As an IHG member, I'd assume the addition of more luxury options and more options in cities not often covered by IHG will be a win. As an SPG member, the additional of IC properties in cities not already well covered by SPG will be a big win...but the addition of Holiday Inns, Staybridge, etc will be strictly a plus for investors and the midscale/budget customer base. SPG customers tend to be higher-end than IHG customers overall for a reason that matches the quality of properties in the overall portfolios of the chains. Still, it will be nice to have SPG options in small towns/rural areas with Holiday Inn where SPG has no current coverage.

Most investor analyses put the more likely IHG to be acquired by Starwood, not the other way around. IHG is much larger in terms of property/room number...but substantially smaller in market cap. Starwood's market cap is 50% larger, making it much harder for IHG to acquire Starwood than the other way around.

The rumors exist because IHG has been on record as looking to expand or be acquired...which is why Wyndham made its attempt in 2014. And Starwood now is on record looking at ways to boost its value for investors.

fireworksboy

Somebody poked a hibernating bear. ^ Nice work and evaluation. And as a LT Plat at *wood, i don't think it's too much to ask for at least a full calendar year as RA if that's the side of the table we're eating from going forward.

stimpy

First of all, the Westin?!?! That's an extremely poor comparison to Le Grand. Location is debatable, though they are a 10 minute walk from each other. But the treatment you receive as an elite guest isn't even close. Westin = no upgrade, no club, no nothing. Le Grand = suite, club, mini-bar, etc. And vastly better service. All at a lower price at the IC.

PdG I haven't stayed in since the renovation, but I was not impressed when I tried it several years ago. Since we are talking elites here, I'm sure if I use the same comparison of a top elite booking the lowest level room, I'm much better off at Le Grand. :

I'll leave off all the cities you mentioned that don't have IC's. Wins over what? And you left off the cities that have IC's but no Starwood.

Again, with the elite booking lowest level, the IC wins. The SPG hotels don't even have Club's do they?

Augustine is very new so we'll see. But no club, right? The IC Prague gives excellent RA treatment. Every time a suite with Club.

Here its a location issue. If you want to be right in the center, SPG is the choice. Maybe for outer business locations IC is the choice.

I forgot about the StR here. That is a pretty special hotel. However the Westin is rather poor for Plat treatment. RA's get well taken care of at the IC. Especially repeat guests. And I prefer the IC location.

The IC wins in just about every category in Warsaw. Beyond the obvious, the IC has better views, better health club and has a pool. And one of the best clubs in Europe. Maybe the Bristol has a better tourist location, but I only go on business.

I have to admit ignorance of this city. Russia isn't exactly business friendly IMHO. I've been to the old Sheraton in St. Pete as a tourist, but no IC's there.

Agreed. Palace has better location, but IC has a Club. A pretty good Club.

Agree that StR has good reports, but again no Club and likely lesser Plat upgrades in comparison with IC which gives you a high floor Club suite with awesome Bosphorus views. The Westin cannot compare at all.

Again leaving off the cities that have no IC's. And you left off a lot of cities and beautiful IC resorts where there is no Starwood

In the Financial district the IC and Westin are owned by the same company along with the RC. The IC is clearly more luxurious than the Westin, but the RC is the best. And the location is severely different than the other SPG hotels. It's almost like they are in different cities so you have to decide on location more than any other factor.

As a business traveler I've not been to Sanya yet. I would guess that the StR could be better, but probably not the Westin

Haven't been, but hear great things about the IC Nanjing.

Two well reputed IC's in Chengdu. Sorry, but none of these hotels existed in the 2nd tier cities in China back when that was my beat. So I can't judge.

But you left Hong Kong off the China list. That's an example of a city where Starwood is very, very poor in comparison and the IC is one of the top 5 hotels in the city (Pen, FS, MO, MO). And has arguably the best views of any hotel in the world.

The StR hasn't arrived yet. The IC is much better than the ITCs and really in a different category as it is boutique in a extremely different location, right on the water at Nariman point.

IME the IC RA experience is better than the SPG Plat experience in Delhi. I like the location too.

I'm not sure if it is still true, but when I used to go to Bali, the IC was the only hotel on the island that picked up Club guests inside immigration and has their own lounge at the airport. Club at the IC is like a different private inner hotel with its own pool and awesome service. The StR is a beautiful hotel, but again I think IC RA experience is better than SPG Plat experience. The StR doesn't have a Club, right?

Another place where location rules. I'm sure the StR will be a better hotel because the IC isn't the greatest here, but location beats out most other considerations.

I think the IC has a better reputation with the locals, but I've not tried it.

Not from the reports I hear! But I've not tried it.

There are two IC's, one very good, and one that doesn't treat RA's very well. Location would probably be the decider. I like the Westin location myself.

Can't talk about future hotels as SPG only has the Westin and LM. I'd say they are comparable to the IC which is still more like the Japanese hotel that it took over. As a tourist I'll always choose the MO, but on business the LM location usually works for me.

I'll always choose the IC in Singapore for the location and the excellent Club. I don't like the St Regis location and the W is on Sentosa.

The StR, yes. But I completely disagree with the Westin. I've done a LOT of nights at both the Westin and IC and the IC far better hotel. The Club at the Westin is a joke in comparison. The SGS you could argue is better as I mentioned above. The W here and in most other cities I wouldn't use as a comparison. They are a rather different class of hotels that generally favor style and hype over traditional service. If we are talking bang for the buck as an elite, the IC wins even over the StR. And it has a better public transport location which is important in Bangkok. Great RA treatment at the IC as long as you are on a paid stay. For an award stay I'd probably choose the SGS.

See above for W's. The IC is a stunning property, but not one where elite status goes very far on an entry level room.

The IC Asiana wins in Saigon.

Let me add Oz to the list and say that the IC Sydney beats out the nearby Westin for Club and views and overall quality. Even though I like the Westin a lot. And the Melbourne IC is better I think and in Adelaide there isn't any SPG, right? And then there's the Sanctuary Cove up in Queensland.


I was thinking as an RA which I expect would get severely diluted in a merger. The company would initially spin it as a win for us all, just like they would do for their investors and the Street, but at some point after the merger completes, the deflation of points and benefits would begin in earnest.

50%? A quick Google search says Starwood is $13.36 billion and IHG is $10.11 billion. Are you looking at the ADR? The same search shows IHG growing at a much faster rate and could overtake Starwood at some point. But I'm not a hotel stock analyst so will wait to see what happens.