NCommander

Agreed. Also nice to see someone else agree w.r.t. to semi-automatic != manual driving experience.

Will ask if the Hertz in HPN or MIA have any sticks while I'm there, maybe I'll get lucky ...

asandrs

Sorry to be a bit off topic but i got a stick shift nissan sentra years ago at Hertz LAX, I only asked half jokingly as LA was the last place in the US I thought they would have a real gear box car - they had to blow the cobwebs off before I got it but it was great. Having been raised in the UK it was just what I wanted - when my friends come over from the UK to visit us they panic when they are given a automatic - most of them have never driven one before !. I've driven Porsche's, M3's and Audi S's with their twin clutches etc and to me a real clutch is still a peddle on the floor. My theory is that an automatic versus real gearbox is like comparing masturbation to sexual intercourse - with either transmission the destination is probably the same but with a manual box the journey can be much more fun - bottom line - there's a lot of w---ers in the USA.

Lapinou

Not really. In Europe, and Southern Europe in particular, no one wants automatic cars. One has to offer really cheap prices to get rid of these on the second hand market!

This is partly due to the extra maintenance costs, poor fuel economy (gas is twice more expensive than in the USA ) and also the fact that hardly anyone knows how to use an automatic. In France, automatic cars are also penalised by heavier taxes.

My previous company car was automatic (a rarity) and none of my colleagues could ever use it because of this. I was asked to choose an manual when it was replaced (and I hate it )

Fuel costs also explains why the large majority of European standard or full size cars (and virtually 100% of our 4x4 / SUVs) are Diesel.

I totally disagree with the idea that manual gears offer more driving pleasure.
You might as well tell me that you prefer manual windows, manual lock, or a car without power steering or air conditioning...

jbcarioca

To equate other convenience devices (why not parking sensors too?) with an automatic transmission misses the point entirely. Some automatics have better fuel economy than manuals, but that still misses the point. Manual transmissions are FUN. Many Europeans and even the odd American actually like to drive, and for them (us) an automatic is a curse. In 25 years of having a house in France I have never met anybody who could not drive an automatic, but I've met many who did not care to, including me. These days, however, if one rents a premium car in Europe it is nearly always an automatic. That is sad, but true. Even Ferrari and Porsche have 'manumatics' than far outsell true manuals these days and Smart has 'manumatic' as the only choice.

I have not had a manual from Hertz in the US for years, although I always ask when I am at a counter. They just laugh, or say "what?"

CrazyOne

What I can't figure out is how they find people to valet park these days when so few can drive manuals. Or even the guys working in a repair shop could be suspect, though I suppose people interested in working on cars might be more likely to know how to drive a stick.

While yes the fuel economy difference has been largely erased, one reason to still choose a stick is that with a smaller engined car, the stick will accelerate a heckuva lot better.

Any cost savings at the beginning from not buying the auto will remain at the end in the form of lower resale value for the stick (in the US).

As far as maintenance, though, there shouldn't be a huge difference in a 5-year ownership. The longer you keep the car, the more the auto would probably cost, until you reached the point with the manual where the clutch needs to be replaced. For me, that was past 10 years and 160k miles before I needed a clutch. ^

But I'm probably not buying a stick next time. My left foot is tired.

Years ago (20+) I remember a rental in Florida where my mother booked an economy car, and they called for an "economy manual" which I assume meant a stick. Apparently there weren't too many cars left; we got a Mustang GT. I was old enough to drive but did not get to drive it more than around the block.

That's the only rental reference to a stick shift I can remember.

Easy Victor

Funny that you mention that. I drive a 6 speed stick. Pulled into a home where a memorial service was taking place. Asked the valet if they could drive a stick. Affirmative answer, so I handed him my keys. Went inside the house, and 15 minutes later they came in looking for me. The valet drove the car quite a ways, but when he went to park, couldn't get it in reverse. Completely blocking the road for the entire time. I had to go bail him out-and I parked right in front of the driveway on my way back...

piper28

Gotta be honest, put me in the category of those that just don't get the fun of driving a manual. I can do it, but fun is generally not the word I'd use to describe it. And if I'm sitting in a traffic jam somewhere, fun is really far down on the list of words I'd be using, most of which I shouldn't use here .

I've spent more money over the years maintaining a manual than I have an automatic (shift cables and a clutch primarily if I remember properly, it's been a few years). But these days a lot of the vehicles I'm in the market for it's not even an option.

I can drive a manual if I needed, although it's been long enough that I suspect it'd probably scare the owner for the first little bit until I got the hang of it again. The downside is I got stuck helping a friend move because the moving van the place rented her was a manual, and I was the only one she knew that knew how to drive one . (And FWIW, fun is definitely not the word I'd use to describe that driving experience either ).

I've known exactly 2 people that I figured actually drove a manual properly enough to possibly really experience the gas savings. (And I freely admit, I'm not one of those 2.) One of those people was originally from Portugal, so that's probably where she got it from.

dream7

Agreed, a stick is not fun to drive in a traffic jam. But on the open road, on hills, etc. there is a certain pleasure to a smooth shifting, short throw manual transmission.

Lapinou

You may find driving a manual is fun if you only do it occasionally, but having to drive one everyday is just not fun at all!

jbcarioca

There are those who may well be masochists. I even prefer a manual when I am stuck in interminable traffic jams. Driving a six speed manual 911 in Los Angeles traffic is still nicer for me than any automatic. It's certainly not rational, with that I must agree.

CrazyOne

It's when I'm stuck in some stop and go traffic that I really curse having the stick shift, but otherwise I enjoy it as well. In the car with a decent shift mechanism (I have an Acura Integra from 10 years ago, Honda transmissions are generally well-regarded for their shift action, and after 10 years, plus another 4 on an older Integra that was similar, the operation is rather instinctive) it is fun to use, except when you have to clutch to start and stop over and over. In a moving van or other truck, or even any other car with a clunky shifter or heavy clutch, not as much fun, certainly.

The hardest thing to give up in a similar sized car if I get an auto would be the initial acceleration. When I pull away after a traffic light stop, for example, people probably think I'm mashing down on the gas. In fact, I'm giving it probably just as moderate a touch as they are, but the direct connection of the manual gears vs their slushbox means I take right off whereas their cars have a big hesitation at the same moderate throttle.

piper28

That's interesting, because generally the way I notice the people around me driving a stick is when you have to brake to avoid running into them when the shift from first to second . But then, I don't buy cars with undersized engines for the size of the car.

Easy Victor

"But then, I don't buy cars with undersized engines for the size of the car.But then, I don't buy cars with undersized engines for the size of the car."

That's making one large assumption. I know more people driving sticks w/ performance engines than those trying to save gas or buy an less expensive car.

CrazyOne

A lot of people never learn to be that good with the stick from what I can see. I can shift smoother and faster than most automatics, but a good many people can't because they either don't care to get it that coordinated or haven't done it long enough (or long enough recently, in the case sometimes of people going back to sticks after years of autos). Having to brake in the scenario you describe has nothing to do with a stick or even the size of the engine. It has everything to do with the driver.

Engine being undersized is a subjective measure anyway. It can't be undersized without setting a performance level, and agreement on what should be adequate would be impossible.

djk7

To elaborate, each state sets their own requirements, but none that I have seen require demonstrating any real competency to get a license. Florida is an example of the worst.
1) Driver's Ed is no longer taught at most high schools.
2) No formal training is required.
3) A few people pay for formal training, but most "learn" from relatives or friends who could stand some training themselves.
4) Pass a written test containing 20 questions and a sign test with 20 signs, each with a score of 75% or better. Example questions here.
5) Pass a vision test.
6) Pass a driving test, usually on a closed course with no other vehicles and a max speed of around 20mph.