Frontier Airlines announces major expansion from Cleveland Hopkins Airport
Jan 7, 2016, 2:05 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: CLE, CAK
Programs: UA Milage Plus
Posts: 214
Frontier Airlines announces major expansion from Cleveland Hopkins Airport
I knew something like this would happen. Now we just need Alaska Air and Virgin America to come to CLE 
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/inde...ounces_ma.html
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/inde...ounces_ma.html
Jan 8, 2016, 8:04 am
#2
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New Jersey most of the time, also Germany, California and Florida for family and other places for business.
Programs: Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Silver, Hilton Gold, Starwood Gold. Global Entry since 2014
Posts: 31
I knew something like this would happen. Now we just need Alaska Air and Virgin America to come to CLE
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/inde...ounces_ma.html
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/inde...ounces_ma.html
My point is keep your expectations low, and see what F9 ends up doing at CLE in a year or two.
Michael
Jan 8, 2016, 12:45 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: new zealand
Posts: 530
They had a "major expansion" from TTN a couple years back, but soon began culling the herd with some of the more marginable routes ... what was a hopeful sign for TTN soon became primarily a NJ to FL operation, which I regret because this otherwise fine airport is a short distance from my home.
My point is keep your expectations low, and see what F9 ends up doing at CLE in a year or two.l
My point is keep your expectations low, and see what F9 ends up doing at CLE in a year or two.l
Jan 8, 2016, 3:36 pm
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: CLE, CAK
Programs: UA Milage Plus
Posts: 214
They had a "major expansion" from TTN a couple years back, but soon began culling the herd with some of the more marginable routes ... what was a hopeful sign for TTN soon became primarily a NJ to FL operation, which I regret because this otherwise fine airport is a short distance from my home.
My point is keep your expectations low, and see what F9 ends up doing at CLE in a year or two.
Michael
My point is keep your expectations low, and see what F9 ends up doing at CLE in a year or two.
Michael
Jan 8, 2016, 7:53 pm
#5
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 366
Indeed, Frontier flew CLE-IAD/ORD/LGA as a short haul east-west approach. Prior to this it flew CLE-TTN 2-4-3x or so weekly.
I think CLE-PHL at 4x weekly should perform better than CLE-TTN (3x weekly) as it will be easier to do one-ways if the schedule for round-trip doesn't work. One can fly back via another carrier (AA for nonstop, or connection via Delta is usually cheaper). I also have done one-way car rentals between CLE and DTW for pretty inexpensive (for whatever reason, one way car rentals via these markets can be like $50/day or less, unlike generally expensive one-ways between CLE and PIT). As I frequent CLE sometimes, I have found AA charges way too high on the PHL-CLE and CLE-PHL nonstops but will discount ABE-PHL-CLE and vice-versa.
It is my opinion but I believe that CLE-ORD is too short of a route, and one can take MegaBus or drive a straight but rather boring drive through Ohio and Indiana and get between the cities in six hours. Maybe it's a factor for Frontier to not consider restoring it.
CLE-LGA would require slot pairs on the LGA side, so maybe that's why it won't be restored.
For whatever reason, likely high costs or pax not liking using it, Frontier hasn't added much back to IAD. I think a low fare CLE-DC option should be welcomed, however. Maybe Spirit will add CLE-BWI. Outside of the few $49 short haul sales, Southwest doesn't sell CLE-BWI for all that cheap. It's generally cheaper than UA's CLE-DCA however, but it's like low $100s booked 3-4 weeks in advance. Not ULCC level of cheap. The cheaper fares of CAK-DCA from Southwest are gone since Southwest ended that route.
With the long haul routes to SFO, LAX and SEA, it does seem that Frontier still believes CLE has potential. Granted these aren't daily and most of these have red-eye returns which uses a plane that would otherwise sit idle, but the outbound flight is fleet intensive and in general, these are likely geared for CLE pax. I still take it a positive sign for CLE.
I think CLE-PHL at 4x weekly should perform better than CLE-TTN (3x weekly) as it will be easier to do one-ways if the schedule for round-trip doesn't work. One can fly back via another carrier (AA for nonstop, or connection via Delta is usually cheaper). I also have done one-way car rentals between CLE and DTW for pretty inexpensive (for whatever reason, one way car rentals via these markets can be like $50/day or less, unlike generally expensive one-ways between CLE and PIT). As I frequent CLE sometimes, I have found AA charges way too high on the PHL-CLE and CLE-PHL nonstops but will discount ABE-PHL-CLE and vice-versa.
It is my opinion but I believe that CLE-ORD is too short of a route, and one can take MegaBus or drive a straight but rather boring drive through Ohio and Indiana and get between the cities in six hours. Maybe it's a factor for Frontier to not consider restoring it.
CLE-LGA would require slot pairs on the LGA side, so maybe that's why it won't be restored.
For whatever reason, likely high costs or pax not liking using it, Frontier hasn't added much back to IAD. I think a low fare CLE-DC option should be welcomed, however. Maybe Spirit will add CLE-BWI. Outside of the few $49 short haul sales, Southwest doesn't sell CLE-BWI for all that cheap. It's generally cheaper than UA's CLE-DCA however, but it's like low $100s booked 3-4 weeks in advance. Not ULCC level of cheap. The cheaper fares of CAK-DCA from Southwest are gone since Southwest ended that route.
With the long haul routes to SFO, LAX and SEA, it does seem that Frontier still believes CLE has potential. Granted these aren't daily and most of these have red-eye returns which uses a plane that would otherwise sit idle, but the outbound flight is fleet intensive and in general, these are likely geared for CLE pax. I still take it a positive sign for CLE.
Last edited by beyondhere; Jan 8, 2016 at 8:23 pm
Jan 8, 2016, 8:15 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: CLE, CAK
Programs: UA Milage Plus
Posts: 214
Indeed, Frontier flew CLE-IAD/ORD/LGA as a short haul east-west approach. Prior to this it flew CLE-TTN 2-4-3x or so weekly.
I think CLE-PHL at 4x weekly should perform better than CLE-TTN (3x weekly) as it will be easier to do one-ways if the schedule for round-trip doesn't work. One can fly back via another carrier (AA for nonstop, or connection via Delta is usually cheaper). I also have done one-way car rentals between CLE and DTW for pretty inexpensive (for whatever reason, one way car rentals via these markets can be like $50/day or less, unlike generally expensive one-ways between CLE and PIT). As I frequent CLE sometimes, I have found AA charges way too high on the PHL-CLE and CLE-PHL nonstops but will discount ABE-PHL-CLE and vice-versa.
It is my opinion but I believe that CLE-ORD is too short of a route, and one can take MegaBus or drive a straight but rather boring drive through Ohio and Indiana and get between the cities in six hours. Maybe it's a factor for Frontier to not consider restoring it.
CLE-LGA would require slot pairs on the LGA side, so maybe that's why it won't be restored.
For whatever reason, likely high costs or pax not liking using it, Frontier hasn't added much back to IAD. I think a low fare CLE-DC option should be welcomed, however. Maybe Spirit will add CLE-BWI. Outside of the few $49 short haul sales, Southwest doesn't sell CLE-BWI for all that cheap. It's generally cheaper than UA's CLE-DCA however, but it's like low $100s booked 3-4 weeks in advance. Not ULCC level of cheap. The cheaper fares of CAK-DCA from Southwest are gone since Southwest ended that route.
With the long haul routes to SFO, LAX and SEA, it does seem that Frontier still believes CLE has potential. Granted these aren't daily and most of these have red-eye returns which uses a plane that would otherwise sit idle, but the outbound flight is fleet intensive and in general, these are likely geared for CLE pax. I still take it a positive sign for CLE.
I think CLE-PHL at 4x weekly should perform better than CLE-TTN (3x weekly) as it will be easier to do one-ways if the schedule for round-trip doesn't work. One can fly back via another carrier (AA for nonstop, or connection via Delta is usually cheaper). I also have done one-way car rentals between CLE and DTW for pretty inexpensive (for whatever reason, one way car rentals via these markets can be like $50/day or less, unlike generally expensive one-ways between CLE and PIT). As I frequent CLE sometimes, I have found AA charges way too high on the PHL-CLE and CLE-PHL nonstops but will discount ABE-PHL-CLE and vice-versa.
It is my opinion but I believe that CLE-ORD is too short of a route, and one can take MegaBus or drive a straight but rather boring drive through Ohio and Indiana and get between the cities in six hours. Maybe it's a factor for Frontier to not consider restoring it.
CLE-LGA would require slot pairs on the LGA side, so maybe that's why it won't be restored.
For whatever reason, likely high costs or pax not liking using it, Frontier hasn't added much back to IAD. I think a low fare CLE-DC option should be welcomed, however. Maybe Spirit will add CLE-BWI. Outside of the few $49 short haul sales, Southwest doesn't sell CLE-BWI for all that cheap. It's generally cheaper than UA's CLE-DCA however, but it's like low $100s booked 3-4 weeks in advance. Not ULCC level of cheap. The cheaper fares of CAK-DCA from Southwest are gone since Southwest ended that route.
With the long haul routes to SFO, LAX and SEA, it does seem that Frontier still believes CLE has potential. Granted these aren't daily and most of these have red-eye returns which uses a plane that would otherwise sit idle, but the outbound flight is fleet intensive and in general, these are likely geared for CLE pax. I still take it a positive sign for CLE.
As for the loads, I just look up the flight on Frontier's website and I am able to see all the seat maps for it.
Jan 8, 2016, 8:29 pm
#7
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 366
I completely agree with you on all of that. I think CLE-PIT will survive, but I don't think they will do it daily simply because they have done weird things like this in the past. I know that Spirit has been expanding at BWI, so we might see that soon. I do wish that LAX and SFO were daily because I know the demand is there. Spirit has daily LAX and it's almost always full. I think Frontier will eventually do this, but they should have scheduled their fleet more efficiently in order to do this. More flights = more money.
As for the loads, I just look up the flight on Frontier's website and I am able to see all the seat maps for it.
As for the loads, I just look up the flight on Frontier's website and I am able to see all the seat maps for it.
Seat maps are inaccurate for gauging loads, as many don't select their seats in advance. You have to check the T100 data but that gets posted many months later. And loads alone doesn't give indication if Frontier is making a good profit on the route to keep it, or if something else has better potential. On almost every PHL-ATL flight I've been on, it's full. But, when the fares are so low and being fare matched, and pax aren't selecting their seats (for Frontier to make seat selection revenue off of it), it might not be as lucrative for Frontier to keep it over some other route that can make it more revenue. With MCO, many families have to sit together with the kids between the parents, and they pack with suitcases. My view is Frontier can make money off of bag fees and seat assignments with MCO bound flights, but it's less guaranteed with some of these city-city flights that get used by friends visiting friends, family visiting family.
On loads, however, I have personally seen a correlation to when the front to mid rows are occupied, and modest to high fares are being sold, it gives me an idea that a particular flight is booking up fast or is almost booked, and fares will rise higher, if I don't book right away.
Last edited by beyondhere; Jan 8, 2016 at 8:41 pm
Jan 8, 2016, 9:35 pm
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: CLE, CAK
Programs: UA Milage Plus
Posts: 214
you mean CLE-PHL. CLE-PIT would be way too short of a route!
Seat maps are inaccurate for gauging loads, as many don't select their seats in advance. You have to check the T100 data but that gets posted many months later. And loads alone doesn't give indication if Frontier is making a good profit on the route to keep it, or if something else has better potential. On almost every PHL-ATL flight I've been on, it's full. But, when the fares are so low and being fare matched, and pax aren't selecting their seats (for Frontier to make seat selection revenue off of it), it might not be as lucrative for Frontier to keep it over some other route that can make it more revenue. With MCO, many families have to sit together with the kids between the parents, and they pack with suitcases. My view is Frontier can make money off of bag fees and seat assignments with MCO bound flights, but it's less guaranteed with some of these city-city flights that get used by friends visiting friends, family visiting family.
On loads, however, I have personally seen a correlation to when the front to mid rows are occupied, and modest to high fares are being sold, it gives me an idea that a particular flight is booking up fast or is almost booked, and fares will rise higher, if I don't book right away.
Seat maps are inaccurate for gauging loads, as many don't select their seats in advance. You have to check the T100 data but that gets posted many months later. And loads alone doesn't give indication if Frontier is making a good profit on the route to keep it, or if something else has better potential. On almost every PHL-ATL flight I've been on, it's full. But, when the fares are so low and being fare matched, and pax aren't selecting their seats (for Frontier to make seat selection revenue off of it), it might not be as lucrative for Frontier to keep it over some other route that can make it more revenue. With MCO, many families have to sit together with the kids between the parents, and they pack with suitcases. My view is Frontier can make money off of bag fees and seat assignments with MCO bound flights, but it's less guaranteed with some of these city-city flights that get used by friends visiting friends, family visiting family.
On loads, however, I have personally seen a correlation to when the front to mid rows are occupied, and modest to high fares are being sold, it gives me an idea that a particular flight is booking up fast or is almost booked, and fares will rise higher, if I don't book right away.