boerne

great post. using the info soon.

Mike Jacoubowsky

As you pointed out, this line is due for extensive renovations in the near future. If you want the true TGV experience, anything-Bordeaux is not it. The current tracks are old & slow, so it's no surprise they're not using the latest & greatest equipment on it. If you take one of the trains that goes all the way through to Lourdes (or Tarbes I think?) you'll find the new definition of slow TGV. It's a TGV train on a local commute line.

Having said that, it's still a heck of a lot less stressful than driving! Especially if you're from the US and have a non-chipped credit card, which may work on some toll roads, and not on others (frustratingly, it's in the regions surrounding Paris, for example the Loire Valley, where they don't work, but out in the 'sticks they usually do... go figure!).

At some point you should do a long drive through the French countryside, but do so as a way to see the French countryside, not as a conveyance from Point-A to Point-B. Avoiding the toll roads will take you through some delightful villages with fantastic food.

OK, getting back to TGV, the CDG-Avignon line is fast. I believe the Paris-Grenoble line was pretty fast as well.

Best site for train schedules and connectivity that I've found is bahn.de

Happy travels!

stimpy

That exists in many places around France. But that doesn't stop them from using new cars. They put the new cars where the most high paying business customers are. Sometimes for operational reasons you get a set of new cars on one of these slow lines, but it's not normal.

While I do have a chipped card, I disagree that train is a heck of a lot less stressful. If your train is stuck and you are missing a meeting, it can be very stressful. With a car you have ultimate freedom. It's a choice.

Definitely agree.

Mike Jacoubowsky

Fortunately, I have yet to experience anything but ridiculously-punctual train arrival & departure times in France. Belgium appears to be a bit more, er , casual.

As for driving in general, yes, obviously a choice, I'm not suggesting you should take public transportation everywhere, no matter what. But it is far easier to get around France using public transportation systems than in the US. Unless they're on strike.

stut

You can get stuck in epic traffic jams, however. While you have more freedom, in a car, to go round them (particularly with modern satnav), it's not always possible to do so.

But ultimately, it all comes down to where you are. My Dad commuted for years on a pattern of 6 months by train, 6 months by road. He'd get so sick of the delays on one that after 6 months he'd switch to the other...

stimpy

It's thanks to the satnav, with real-time traffic updates, that I cannot recall the last time I have been stuck in traffic in Europe. If there is a jam up ahead, I am advised to switch to another route. The point is that I am in control of my destiny behind the wheel. On a train there is nothing you can do. Still I take trains very often because of their high speed or other logistical reasons.

stut

Again, it depends where you are. For example, in SE England, a closed motorway can often result in gridlock in the surrounding roads as well. Not always avoidable, even with the best Satnav information.

OTOH, some railway lines have diversionary routes. The main line from London King's Cross was closed a couple of weeks ago, but they simply sent trains via Hertford, and I was only 10 minutes late home.

But I do appreciate that, in less crowded parts of the continent, this kind of situation is the exception rather than the rule.

stimpy

Yes, in that area I can appreciate that. In fact I think the last time I was in a jam was several years ago on the M25. The problem in that area is that trains do not serve all the thousands of businesses that place themselves along the M25 so as a visitor you pretty much have to hire a car.

But back to the TGV, I take it most every week, twice this week already, and it has been fast and reasonably on time. Yea!

stut

Ah, you can thank 1980s planning for that!

(Actually, true for both points...)

Mike Jacoubowsky

SNCF really did a number on my trip this past July to the Tour de France. My son and I usually rely on the local trains to get us close-enough to the action that we can ride... this allows us to stay in one place for a week, and avoid renting a car. Oh, I say "usually" because this was my 11th time to the TdF in 12 years so yes, I've made it a bit of a habit.

We always go to the last 9 days or so, which means you alternate between the Alps one year, Pyrenees the next. This past year it was the Alps, and SNCF had decided to modernize (electrify) the local lines around Grenoble. No fun! Had to rent a car and drive as much as two hours each way.

In general, I would much rather not have to rent a car. The toll road hassles (some time US-type credit cards, some do not), worrying about the car getting dinged, and the fun of finding an open gas station on a Sunday morning when you are returning it. But driving itself isn't all that bad, especially if you have googlemaps available.

So in the end, yes, I'm a fan of train travel over driving (in France), but unless you're riding a bike hundreds of miles (as we do) through French countryside, it would be a shame to miss the experience of at least driving through it. If you're only getting around by train, you're going to be pretty limited, and likely miss things like small village festivals. But the heck with cars even... seeing, no, experiencing France on a bicycle is amazing.

stimpy

I agree. For experiencing a place, slower is better. Walking>Biking>Driving>Riding on a train

Mike Jacoubowsky

Off-topic, but the reason I put biking ahead of walking is because... well, life goes by at just the right speed on a bike. You can see something way off in the distance, miles away, and on a bike, you can get there. You travel slowly enough that you smell what's cooking for breakfast or dinner. You can stop along the way and experience things close-up and slowly if you wish. You walk into a bar in France asking for eau ordinaire for you water bottle, and the girl behind the counter jokes with you, replying back "Vin rouge?" But I'm not dissing walking, I'm saying bike and walking go together. You come across a nice little village having a festival of some sort and park your bike and just walk around and eat for an hour or two.

What I've really come to appreciate over the years are the small-town festivals (fetes). The food... the home-grown sausages (saucisse) with that special mustard that lights up your sinuses just right, but if you have just a little too much, it kills you. I could go on and on but this is a threat about European rail travel, so I'll conclude by suggesting that the direct way, the fastest way, isn't always the best way. If you're on a local train and service is frequent and there's a town along the way celebrating something (and in the summer, that's very frequent), get off and check it out. In smaller towns the station isn't going to be too far from the action.

Koby

Strangely enough, one of my regular routes, Aix-en-Provence to Brussel on a Friday night, is more often than not late on arrival. Next time I'll check if the delay is caused entirely by the last "leg" (Lille - Brussel)...

stimpy

When you book on voyages.sncf.com you can see the punctionality stats for each train.

Mike Jacoubowsky

One of the funniest things I ever heard was at the Central station in Amsterdam. An announcement that the next train to somewhere-or-other was going to be "a mere 10 minutes late." That is literally what was said. Definitely a bit more "casual" than train service in France. But I really enjoy the conductors in Belgium for the non-Thalys services. They're straight out of the 1920s, with their little flip-open time pieces, the hats and their mannerisms in general.

But keeping on-topic, sorta, punctuality of French train service, at all levels from TER to TGV, have been remarkable. At least for the many times I've used them.