French TGV: Not as fast as you may think (Paris-CDG-->Bordeaux)
 

Just finished a review on the TGV from Paris-CDG to Bordeaux, you can find more here, if interested: Weekend Blitz - SNCF Train: Paris CDG to Bordeaux

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After doing our research ahead of time and researching how to buy tickets (SNCF vs RailEurope.com post here) and then arriving to Charles de Gaulle airport and making our way to the train station (post: Taking a train from Paris Airport CDG-Charles de Gaulle), it was time to begin our first train journey of the trip.

TGV service/review

We were scheduled on the 16h21 train (that's 4:21pm to you Freedom-fry-loving guys in 'Merica). Because this train didn't originate at the CDG airport, we had to wait until about 15 mins before departure to see which track it would be on. The trip was scheduled to take 4 hours 16 mins (!) and put us at Bordeaux St. Jean right at 21h37.

The TGV has been in service since 1981 and, to be quite honest, some of the cars are starting to feel like they were one of the pioneers back in 1981. That said, everything was rather old and dated and this model didn't offer power ports at the seat, but we were traveling in 2nd class, so it's possible that only 1st class was power-outlet equipped. (Update: Double checked and these particular cars were built between 1988-92 and then refurbished between 2005-09.)


The bathrooms were dirty but, all-around, this wasn't a bad trip, just pretty sparse when compared to the "glamorous" European train travel that we've all heard touted by our brethren from across the pond.


As with anything quintessentially French, wine and coffee wasn't too far:


The full-service dining car had about anything and everything you could want/need on a 4+ hour train ride.


TGV: Not as fast as you may think

If you're like me, you were thinking 4 hours 16 mins to go from the CDG airport to Bordeaux?! That's a substantial trip! For comparison, a direct train trip from Paris Montparnasse takes 3 hours 14 minutes. While it's absolutely easier to take the train, it's only marginally faster and only cheaper if you're going with no more than 2 people.

A drive would take you 5h28 vs 4h16 on the train:


Part of the reason that taking the train from the airport adds an extra 58 minutes is that they take you all the way around Paris to get there:


And, at the end of the day, while the TGV has achieved speeds of up to 190 mph on this line, it's all about averages and actuals:


I wore my Garmin GPS watch on the trip and have the the train-nerd stats here:


Check out the Garmin Connect Player to see it in action: Garmin Connect Player


Interestingly, when researching this route, I found that the SNCF is currently working on a €7.2 billion project to rebuild over 300 km of this line to shorten the distance and make higher speeds possible. When opened in 2017, Bordeaux-Paris route is expected to take 50 mins less, down to 2h24 from 3h14--glad to see the the French are still investing money in rail!


BOTTOM LINE: I still think nothing beats train travel in Europe, but this particular journey had me questioning my loyalty--from the slightly dated train and dirty bathrooms to the rather slow 95 mph average for a "High-speed train."

Check out full review/pics here: Weekend Blitz - SNCF Train: Paris CDG to Bordeaux

Great report and pictures! What site did you use to buy the tickets and the reservations? Seems like Rail Europe costs more in the US. I'm researching a trip from Geneva to Nice, Nice to Paris and the cumulative ticket prices are just about what a French rail pass costs. Any ideas are appreciated. We will bite the bullet and go 1st class for many of the reasons you describe in your report.

Not sure about this. A high-speed line has to answer to a business case, and, up until now, the high-speed line from Paris to St Pierre des Corps is the one the has proven economically viable for the West of France. Paris-Bordeaux is not a population corridor along the lines of Paris-Lyon-Marseille.

But it's all about connectivity and convenience. Would you have everyone change trains at St Pierre des Corps? No through trains from Province-Province or the airport? No, that would be silly. Far better to use the TGV to provide the connections needed, using the high-speed lines where possible.

But I agree that the non-Paris TGVs are long overdue a refurb.

The TGV is a train that uses both conventional and high-speed lines, in order to have a larger network. In your case the HSL was only active from Paris to Tours. It's a shame that Paris doesn't have a through HSL. I don't think that will be fixed any time soon.

Here's a relatively current map of TGV service:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hi...urope_2013.svg

Geneva-Nice in first class costs 60 Euros, if you buy the ticket in advance. Both the French and the Swiss railway websites offer this fare, but the Swiss one is easier to negotiate. An advanced-purchase Nice-Paris ticket should also be available at an acceptable price. Stay away from Raileurope's inflated (all non-reduced) tickets.

Agreed, stay away from RailEurope, full post on SNCF vs RailEurope can be found here. Includes links and instructions on how to book (you have to trick the system a bit if you're from the US): How-to: Booking French Trains (RailEurope vs SNCF)

There's something weird going on in your speed plot between the southwestern outskirts of Paris and Tours. This is the actual high-speed line, but your Garmin gadget only records speeds of 50-60 km/h (mph on a European train, yuck, my head explodes, use civilized units, please :D). But it also says that you covered 171 km in 37 minutes, which gives an average speed of almost 280 km/h.

The total average of about 150 km/h seems correct, though. I'd say it's really not that bad and pretty normal for a train going on classical lines with that many stops.

I think you're on to something here--it seemed odd to be so low since the Paris-Tours section is the part of the line which should be the fastest (the only true high-speed TGV section of the line). Looks like an anomaly with the Garmin software.

Great post and trip report! ^ Very interesting also to see the circular TGV route through the Greater Paris area...

My experience with anything TGV based, be it the French trains, the Thalys or the Korean KTX, is to book first class with advance discounts. With my 190 cm and 100 kg, I can't really enjoy longer trips in that carriage in standard class.

Actually, on the map, from CDG to close to Villeneuve Saint Georges (Valenton, actually), the TGV is using a HSL (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGV_Interconnexion_Est) ; but as the line is going around Paris in a gentle curve, the TGV is not running at 300kph, but somewhat slower, still faster than on standard tracks, I would guess around 220kph. The real slow part is between Valenton and Massy, where there are only two (sometimes three) standard tracks for a dense traffic of freight trains and suburban (RER C) commuter trains, and where the speed would not exceed 50-60kph.

The 5:30 by car is quite optimistic: getting from CDG to the south, around Paris can be a nightmare (depening on date and time). Also, the 5:30 do not include stops. And there's not only fuel but also "péage" to pay for...

I'm surprised to see the old cars still being used on this route. On all the routes I take they have upgraded to much newer cars, or at least newer interiors with power ports and good lighting.

Some routes are faster than others. They have new TV monitors in the cars on the Lyria line to Switzerland now, at least in the first class cars, which show the speed you are running at. From Paris to Montbard, we seem to average about 285 km/h. But from there on to Dijon it slows quite a bit due to the frequent sharp twists and turns and the quality of the track. However the new line from Dijon to Mulhouse brings you back to high speed.

There's a thread about that* ;) - buy your tickets online from SNCF direct and bypass the middleman - who charges entirely too much for no actual service. Oh, don;t state your residence is the USA, or you may find yourself redirected to Rail Europe's site!

French rail - SNCF - TGV - trains - Rail Europe - online ticket and purchasing (Oops, I see jmgriffin beat me to it!)

OP, great report. Thanks for sharing.

As it is off topic in this forum I won't share our AMTRAK MIA-WAS return - 27 hours each way and a return to 1960s technology. It would make you yearn for slow, old and stodgy Paris CDG to Bordeaux 95 mph SNCF train. :eek:

Goeiendag! Nice handle (at least it's not Ant Twerp! :D). You are quite correct - the stressors endured, time and money spent on a similar routing makes the train - even older cars and stodgy speeds - a relative pleasure.

Hey there, you are singing my song! :) Welcome to the choir!