Maestro's Europe Trip - Newbie here.. Please be Patient
Dec 20, 2011, 3:18 pm
#61
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Ditto for Sydney, the entire city just seemed to sparkle, it was just an amazing time.
Dec 20, 2011, 3:27 pm
#62
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I too congratulate him for taking the plunge and going on this adventure, and for asking advice on FT to help make things easier.
Dec 20, 2011, 3:52 pm
#63
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I believe that you are correct BadgerBoi, and like many of us here OP is an ESL poster. He has said before if I recall correctly that he is Québécois, so at least being fluent in French will be helpful for him on this trip. (Even if the accent and vocabulary is very different)
Dec 20, 2011, 6:21 pm
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I guess we'll be arriving July 17th in London, and almost immediately we're going to leave for Disneyland Paris.. come back to London for the Olympics between August 7th to the 12th tentatively.. possibly leave and come back 4 or 5 days to tour London prior to leaving on August 23rd, 2012.
The Olympics will eat up time and geographic space .. but I'm sure it'll be worth it as it only happens once in London for a long time.. the next time its held in London, I'm sure I'll be in my grave probably..
My wife would like us to see the many attractions London has to offer prior to leaving..
Dec 20, 2011, 6:35 pm
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I just saw your flights
Chances are good that you will be flying CO from EWR to FRA, and then LH to LHR, correct?
In that case, you will be a prime target for NEK hand luggage checkers at FRA. They tend to send a third party to act as hand baggage checker on routes popular with North American tourists, and they definitely seem to target the obvious tourists from North America as they are often the ones who have too large and/or too heavy bags. There is an NEK thread here on the M&M forum, and I have spent a lot of time at FRA watching the outcome of this.
You also chose some of the most expensive and least novice traveller/child friendly airports in the world: LHR, FRA, EWR and YYZ. I'm still not clear how you plan to travel from London to Paris to cruise to Paris to London but I recommend train for most of that journey. We need to know the cruise part however to be able to better recommend things to you. I would avoid any more flying if you can, because it will be already challenging to manage what you have in place.
And I would cut down even further on the luggage at this point. Taking a taxi from St Pancras to Southall or Croydon will be prohibitively expensive. Take that money which you are going to spend on such things and add it to your $300 in central London during the Olympics budget to upgrade your London hotel to something more suitable.
Re your question about a rental car in NYC - don't! You won't need or want one in London, Paris, New York, Edinburgh or really anywhere else you have listed.
Also make certain that you understand what tendering is, as it will be common on your cruise. It is yet another reason why small children are barred from many excursions, and why your 2 year old will most likely be in the onboard nursey whilst you are doing excurisions. Not only do the excursion providers and cruise lines not enjoy tendering with small children, many parents do not either. With two small children and two adults, it will be even more difficult to manage. And choppy water can mean upset stomachs; a reality even in summer in what are generally relatively calm ports.
Chances are good that you will be flying CO from EWR to FRA, and then LH to LHR, correct?
In that case, you will be a prime target for NEK hand luggage checkers at FRA. They tend to send a third party to act as hand baggage checker on routes popular with North American tourists, and they definitely seem to target the obvious tourists from North America as they are often the ones who have too large and/or too heavy bags. There is an NEK thread here on the M&M forum, and I have spent a lot of time at FRA watching the outcome of this.
You also chose some of the most expensive and least novice traveller/child friendly airports in the world: LHR, FRA, EWR and YYZ. I'm still not clear how you plan to travel from London to Paris to cruise to Paris to London but I recommend train for most of that journey. We need to know the cruise part however to be able to better recommend things to you. I would avoid any more flying if you can, because it will be already challenging to manage what you have in place.
And I would cut down even further on the luggage at this point. Taking a taxi from St Pancras to Southall or Croydon will be prohibitively expensive. Take that money which you are going to spend on such things and add it to your $300 in central London during the Olympics budget to upgrade your London hotel to something more suitable.
Re your question about a rental car in NYC - don't! You won't need or want one in London, Paris, New York, Edinburgh or really anywhere else you have listed.
Also make certain that you understand what tendering is, as it will be common on your cruise. It is yet another reason why small children are barred from many excursions, and why your 2 year old will most likely be in the onboard nursey whilst you are doing excurisions. Not only do the excursion providers and cruise lines not enjoy tendering with small children, many parents do not either. With two small children and two adults, it will be even more difficult to manage. And choppy water can mean upset stomachs; a reality even in summer in what are generally relatively calm ports.
I would like to do a cruise off of England and disembark and go straight to the Olympics.. I plan to Chunnel to Disneyland Paris after disembarking the plane..
We're flying EWR to LHR on LH.. we booked Business seats for Economy points.. so will be interesting to fly through these airports for the very first time and arriving to Europe for the very first time..
Thanks for the info on travelling to Disneyland Paris.. So the Eurostar goes directly to Disneyland Paris? and then when disembarking go to the buses.. We tried booking Disneyland Paris but its completely full just like every Disney hotel it seems.. but we are eyeing at the Dream Castle.. its rated not bad on www.tripadvisor.com.. and I prefer a bit higher end, but not too high, that we want to stay in our room all day.. but say a family room or something that will get us off to the parks easily each day..
Suggestions seem to stay at one place 4 or more days at a time.. that would fit in with 5 days at Disneyland Paris, but then there are many suggestions contrary. I don't like moving around too much, so we'll max out the stay at Disneyland Paris for 4 nights or something before moving on based on the current itinerary..
Dec 20, 2011, 6:41 pm
#66
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IIRC from posts elsewhere the OP is originally from Asia (I'm happy to be corrected by AM if my memory here is faulty). I used to take umbrage at some of his comments but I think that it might be a language thing.
I too congratulate him for taking the plunge and going on this adventure, and for asking advice on FT to help make things easier.
I too congratulate him for taking the plunge and going on this adventure, and for asking advice on FT to help make things easier.
I'm also Asian by descent, my parents immigrated from Singapore.. and they are pretty hard headed and hard to deal with.. so a lot has rubbed off on me, but hopefully, I calm down and relax in that area too.
Thanks for the words of encouragement, greatly appreciate it.. Taking the plunge and travelling somewhere totally out of my comfort zone is only possible with help from FTers such as yourself.. so again, I appreciate everyone's patience as I get educated and up to speed.. I think I'm on the very tip of getting into the vast information.. and our trip only touches the very out limits what Europe has to offer.. so I'm disaapointed in that regard, but encouraged to hear that there potentially other trips to be taken to explore what Europe has to offer. Plus other parts of the world..
I really must get my cc connected to the property management business and start charging expenses on cc.. I could conceivably charge a million dollars plus a year additional.. most suppliers dont take Amex, but I guess Visa points would be better than nothing..
Dec 20, 2011, 6:50 pm
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I found your all of your posts in this thread to be rather offensive. You made so many careless remarks, like implying that Scotland isn't part of the UK, referring to Europe as if it was just one country, calling driving on the left as the "wrong side", and suggesting that Europeans drive on the left. Are you sure you even searched "Europe" on a map before? It is insulting and pretentious to suggest that an entire continent is only worth 7 weeks of your time. However, having lived in Norwich and Glasgow and having been to many cities in the UK/Europe before, I'll throw in a few of my thoughts anyway.
More than 1 day in any Disney park anywhere in the world is an utter waste of time and money imo, coming from someone who's been to Disney parks in HK, Tokyo, Florida and California. Even 1 day is somewhat questionable imo. Paris is the tourist city, why would you sacrifice even one minute of time in a theme park when you could be out seeing some proper sights and eating delicious French food? If you want to spend a week at the Olympics and a week on a cruise (both pretty good ideas for a 7 week itinerary), you shouldn't really be hopping all over the continent with 2 young kids.
I'd recommend a good amount of time in London (though I despise London) and take short side trips to other "essential" southern cities such as Bath and Brighton. It'll be much more leisurely and enjoyable than going up to St. Andrews for no reason. The UK isn't just one country, it is made up of distinct constituent nations which deserve their own time. You can do Scotland and Ireland on another trip.
Another thing you could do is stop in Lille on the way between Paris and London. It's a major city in northern France, a very nice part of the country which isn't as touristy as Paris or the Mediterranean cities. Actually, Brussels would also be a good "on the way" stop with more to do than in Lille.
If you've never been to Europe before I'd advise against renting a car. Fuel is much more expensive than Canada and driving customs are different. It's not just about starting the engine and stepping on the pedal, remember you'll have your kids in the back.
Good luck on the trip, I'm happy to see you've decided to take the plunge and leave your comfort zone of North American resort travel and go see the "real world". Maybe I'll see you in near future years flying to the "other side" of the world to Asia.
More than 1 day in any Disney park anywhere in the world is an utter waste of time and money imo, coming from someone who's been to Disney parks in HK, Tokyo, Florida and California. Even 1 day is somewhat questionable imo. Paris is the tourist city, why would you sacrifice even one minute of time in a theme park when you could be out seeing some proper sights and eating delicious French food? If you want to spend a week at the Olympics and a week on a cruise (both pretty good ideas for a 7 week itinerary), you shouldn't really be hopping all over the continent with 2 young kids.
I'd recommend a good amount of time in London (though I despise London) and take short side trips to other "essential" southern cities such as Bath and Brighton. It'll be much more leisurely and enjoyable than going up to St. Andrews for no reason. The UK isn't just one country, it is made up of distinct constituent nations which deserve their own time. You can do Scotland and Ireland on another trip.
Another thing you could do is stop in Lille on the way between Paris and London. It's a major city in northern France, a very nice part of the country which isn't as touristy as Paris or the Mediterranean cities. Actually, Brussels would also be a good "on the way" stop with more to do than in Lille.
If you've never been to Europe before I'd advise against renting a car. Fuel is much more expensive than Canada and driving customs are different. It's not just about starting the engine and stepping on the pedal, remember you'll have your kids in the back.
Good luck on the trip, I'm happy to see you've decided to take the plunge and leave your comfort zone of North American resort travel and go see the "real world". Maybe I'll see you in near future years flying to the "other side" of the world to Asia.
Really.. I have no clue what I'm getting into and only seen Europe on HD channels, and the vast architecture.. but in terms of geography, or travelling.. heck I didn't even know that the Chunnel train was finished.. I saw a documentary awhile back about it.. but again its a cultural thing, and I'll have my language corrected and apologize that I offended you..
Regarding Asia, my parents constantly nowadays travel to China.. I would love to go on a land tour.. and god forbid, visit Disneyland HK..
But, I haven't back to Singapore since I was 5 years of age.. there is a nice Fairmont there.. and family I haven't seen in 31 years.. so I must collect the miles and embark on far east Asia trip.. possibly stopping in Australia.. again that's all new to me.. so its starting from scratch..
7 weeks out and about will be the longest trip in my life aside from trips as a young toddler.. plus my son is in school so don't want to miss much school if we can help it.. I would like to go back when my youngest is at least 5 so we can hit land tours extensively.. I guess its the Olympic experience this time, so shall be happy to try something new out..
Dec 21, 2011, 12:07 am
#68
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Originally Posted by Ancien Maestro
... 4 or 5 days to tour London prior to leaving on August 23rd, 2012.
Originally Posted by Ancien Maestro
...tour London for 4 or 5 days possibly before we disembark August 23rd.
And for those of you who who say 'Oh! Well! We all knew what he meant!', I say, did you really? In this case, maybe; but in general how can you be sure what someone means when he says exactly the opposite (except, perhaps, when playing some children's 'contrary' game)?!? The first thing one learns in Logic 101 is that it is impossible for both 'A' and 'not A' to be true simultaneously.
And here endeth this friendly reminder to be careful in what you write and say, because people will take you at your word.
cheers,
Henry
Dec 21, 2011, 12:26 am
#69
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And for those of you who who say 'Oh! Well! We all knew what he meant!', I say, did you really? In this case, maybe; but in general how can you be sure what someone means when he says exactly the opposite (except, perhaps, when playing some children's 'contrary' game)?!? The first thing one learns in Logic 101 is that it is impossible for both 'A' and 'not A' to be true simultaneously.
And here endeth this friendly reminder to be careful in what you write and say, because people will take you at your word.
And here endeth this friendly reminder to be careful in what you write and say, because people will take you at your word.
Dec 21, 2011, 12:32 am
#70
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One more word of advice on the subject: put your attitudes and preconceptions aside. I saw what you wrote about the French, and if you go with that kind of attitude you will receive the same and more back, and your trip will be less pleasant. You can choose to travel the type of tourist who expects everything to be the same as home, and who doesn't research or follow local customs, and who comes home disappointed, or you can be open to learning and experiencing things and realise 'familiar' doesn't always mean 'best'.
I am for instance already concerned that you will be one of those North American Disney fans who comes back to tell us all how awful Disneyland Paris is, just because it isn't entirely American. It is to me one of the best Disney parks and far superior to the American parks, but many people refuse to see that.
I've stayed at the Dream Castle; it is a mid-range French hotel. That means that it won't be at the level you may expect, and probably below the HI Express in San Antonio. How are you researching the Disney hotels? I am very suspicious that they are all sold out, but as most North Americans don't travel there inventory varies on the various sites.
Since you speak French, why not book directly on the DLP French site? That tends to give the best prices on hotel rooms and passes.
Last edited by exbayern; Dec 21, 2011 at 5:55 am
Dec 21, 2011, 12:34 am
#71
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Dec 21, 2011, 5:54 am
#72
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I took Santander's 'real world' comment to be a warm acknowledgement of OP's love of WDW. Unlike at Epcot, China is not next to Norway, and the UK and France are not connected via a short pedestrian bridge.
There is nothing wrong with an affection for Disney parks, but as OP is learning Epcot really doesn't have much relevance to the rest of the world in general.
Even his past Disney experience won't help him that much whilst at Disneyland Paris. I'm glad that he is open to hearing our recommendations and suggestions, but again also really encourage him to borrow some books from the library as it sounds like he needs access to a lot of information relatively quickly. I don't always agree with many of the guidebooks, but then I don't agree with some of the advice he has received on his threads about this topic on FT either.
There is nothing wrong with an affection for Disney parks, but as OP is learning Epcot really doesn't have much relevance to the rest of the world in general.
Even his past Disney experience won't help him that much whilst at Disneyland Paris. I'm glad that he is open to hearing our recommendations and suggestions, but again also really encourage him to borrow some books from the library as it sounds like he needs access to a lot of information relatively quickly. I don't always agree with many of the guidebooks, but then I don't agree with some of the advice he has received on his threads about this topic on FT either.
Dec 21, 2011, 4:39 pm
#73
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I took Santander's 'real world' comment to be a warm acknowledgement of OP's love of WDW. Unlike at Epcot, China is not next to Norway, and the UK and France are not connected via a short pedestrian bridge.
There is nothing wrong with an affection for Disney parks, but as OP is learning Epcot really doesn't have much relevance to the rest of the world in general.
Even his past Disney experience won't help him that much whilst at Disneyland Paris. I'm glad that he is open to hearing our recommendations and suggestions, but again also really encourage him to borrow some books from the library as it sounds like he needs access to a lot of information relatively quickly. I don't always agree with many of the guidebooks, but then I don't agree with some of the advice he has received on his threads about this topic on FT either.
There is nothing wrong with an affection for Disney parks, but as OP is learning Epcot really doesn't have much relevance to the rest of the world in general.
Even his past Disney experience won't help him that much whilst at Disneyland Paris. I'm glad that he is open to hearing our recommendations and suggestions, but again also really encourage him to borrow some books from the library as it sounds like he needs access to a lot of information relatively quickly. I don't always agree with many of the guidebooks, but then I don't agree with some of the advice he has received on his threads about this topic on FT either.
OP or AM is a mature individual and from what I gathered from his posts, his latest vacations were associated with WDW because of his young kids. For sure he is a world traveler with means. Vacation in Europe by 4 people for 7 weeks requires some pennies. I am certain he posted his plans to get a reaction from folks and to receive pointers to choose from as it is easier and more meaningful to hear what people experienced themselves than reading in the book which is typically published for profit. AM will do well on this trip and most likely will use very little of advise provided in this thread.
Last edited by 1Newflyer; Dec 22, 2011 at 12:52 am
Dec 21, 2011, 5:05 pm
#74
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I'm ashamed to say, as a native English speaker, that your command of the language is consistently better than mine.
Dec 21, 2011, 6:12 pm
#75
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Santander gave you excellent advice. I said earlier that a pet peeve of mine is people saying that they are 'going to Europe'. But you continue to talk about 'going to Europe' as if we are all one and the same, and we are not. Perhaps you could now be a little more specific since you have chosen your itinerary. And if you are really serious about what you wrote (such as not knowing that the UK was an island?) then may I suggest once again that you do some basic research out of FT and go to the library and read some of the travel books aimed at beginner/novice travellers to various parts of Europe.
One more word of advice on the subject: put your attitudes and preconceptions aside. I saw what you wrote about the French, and if you go with that kind of attitude you will receive the same and more back, and your trip will be less pleasant. You can choose to travel the type of tourist who expects everything to be the same as home, and who doesn't research or follow local customs, and who comes home disappointed, or you can be open to learning and experiencing things and realise 'familiar' doesn't always mean 'best'.
I am for instance already concerned that you will be one of those North American Disney fans who comes back to tell us all how awful Disneyland Paris is, just because it isn't entirely American. It is to me one of the best Disney parks and far superior to the American parks, but many people refuse to see that.
I've stayed at the Dream Castle; it is a mid-range French hotel. That means that it won't be at the level you may expect, and probably below the HI Express in San Antonio. How are you researching the Disney hotels? I am very suspicious that they are all sold out, but as most North Americans don't travel there inventory varies on the various sites.
Since you speak French, why not book directly on the DLP French site? That tends to give the best prices on hotel rooms and passes.
One more word of advice on the subject: put your attitudes and preconceptions aside. I saw what you wrote about the French, and if you go with that kind of attitude you will receive the same and more back, and your trip will be less pleasant. You can choose to travel the type of tourist who expects everything to be the same as home, and who doesn't research or follow local customs, and who comes home disappointed, or you can be open to learning and experiencing things and realise 'familiar' doesn't always mean 'best'.
I am for instance already concerned that you will be one of those North American Disney fans who comes back to tell us all how awful Disneyland Paris is, just because it isn't entirely American. It is to me one of the best Disney parks and far superior to the American parks, but many people refuse to see that.
I've stayed at the Dream Castle; it is a mid-range French hotel. That means that it won't be at the level you may expect, and probably below the HI Express in San Antonio. How are you researching the Disney hotels? I am very suspicious that they are all sold out, but as most North Americans don't travel there inventory varies on the various sites.
Since you speak French, why not book directly on the DLP French site? That tends to give the best prices on hotel rooms and passes.
I went to www.disneyland.com or the Paris site part of the website and every room is completely booked.. You guys might want to try it for me to see if I'm losing it, but other hotels onsite seem to be readily available, so I'm pretty happy to get a hotel that is affordable and near by..
Its hard travelling with small kids I agree.. but that is part of the reasons when we leave for vacation, its 3 weeks at a time, rather than say 1 week or something.. We are doing the 7 weeks to give enough time to explore and not feel rushed.. We might not be staying at the 5 star hotels to make the trip a bit more budget palatable, but we'll be happy to have an affordable place.. room is important to us.. and we may actually end up renting a condo in the few places that we're staying at so we have a bit more room to function.. I'm not loyal to a hotel chain, but we've had some good experiences renting a condo when not staying at a hotel, and that sometimes is my preference, because we've scored some really attractive properties for really cheap.. but something gnaws at me to go lower end and getting say a family room suite.. as its our first time to Europe.. so we'll see how it all comes to play..
If Disneyland Paris is a lot better than the American parks, then we'll have no problem staying 5 days to explore.. We found that the American parks was enjoyable, and really don't have a problem visiting once a year for an extended length of time.. although when the kids get older I would have them attend other attractions like Sea World, Universal, etc..