How bad is Delta, really?
Jun 4, 2010, 12:27 pm
#1
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Freeload Univ. Where are you sitting?
Posts: 14,818
How bad is Delta, really?
I've heard a lot of stories about how hard it is to use Delta Skymiles, now that NW has merged with DL, but I'm curious as to what the Delta gurus think about this.
Some background - back in 2005, I had almost never flown NW, and I had accumulated only a few thousand miles. Then I started on a gig where NW was about the only choice, so I started using all the FT tricks, and in a few months I had reached Gold and banked another 100K or so miles. During this period, I tried many dummy bookings, my interest being premium travel to Europe. As I recall, I was very discouraged, since I could never seem to find any standard availability.
Fast forward to 2007. I had another gig, and again it was NW as the carrier of choice. With promos and all, I was piling away the miles at a pretty good clip, ultimately winding up with just about 500K. So, instead of thinking I was just spinning my wheels I did some serious FT study from the guys who really know the system.
The end result was a whole bunch of WBC tix to Europe in 2008 and 2009. I always got the flights I wanted, and had no trouble combining NW, KLM, DL, AF, etc. None of the flights were solo (i.e., just me). Very enjoyable.
The bottom line is that for someone who doesn't know how to do it, finding award seats can be very daunting. However, there are lots of folks around here who know how to make things happen.
So my question is - is it really as bad as people say it is, or are we just hearing from the 'great unwashed' who would be having problems no matter what?
Some background - back in 2005, I had almost never flown NW, and I had accumulated only a few thousand miles. Then I started on a gig where NW was about the only choice, so I started using all the FT tricks, and in a few months I had reached Gold and banked another 100K or so miles. During this period, I tried many dummy bookings, my interest being premium travel to Europe. As I recall, I was very discouraged, since I could never seem to find any standard availability.
Fast forward to 2007. I had another gig, and again it was NW as the carrier of choice. With promos and all, I was piling away the miles at a pretty good clip, ultimately winding up with just about 500K. So, instead of thinking I was just spinning my wheels I did some serious FT study from the guys who really know the system.
The end result was a whole bunch of WBC tix to Europe in 2008 and 2009. I always got the flights I wanted, and had no trouble combining NW, KLM, DL, AF, etc. None of the flights were solo (i.e., just me). Very enjoyable.
The bottom line is that for someone who doesn't know how to do it, finding award seats can be very daunting. However, there are lots of folks around here who know how to make things happen.
So my question is - is it really as bad as people say it is, or are we just hearing from the 'great unwashed' who would be having problems no matter what?
Jun 4, 2010, 12:51 pm
#3
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: Amtrak Select Plus, Marriott Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,123
Yes, it really is that bad.
I've been checking NYC-BCN for August (two passengers) in both Y and J. DL has zero "green" days in August for the outbound and four for the return. This is with PM status. With no status on CO, they offer 11 days for the outbound, and 16 for the return.
For NYC-LHR in J in November, it's even worse. Zero outbound days and two return for DL. CO has options for 28 different days for the outbound and 20 for the return.
NO COMPARISON!
I've been checking NYC-BCN for August (two passengers) in both Y and J. DL has zero "green" days in August for the outbound and four for the return. This is with PM status. With no status on CO, they offer 11 days for the outbound, and 16 for the return.
For NYC-LHR in J in November, it's even worse. Zero outbound days and two return for DL. CO has options for 28 different days for the outbound and 20 for the return.
NO COMPARISON!
Jun 4, 2010, 12:55 pm
#4
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
It can also be hard....to get the schedule and routing you want, even for medium and sometimes high. Long multiple connections and forced overnights (hotel costs) show up in a lot of award tickets, as well as very early or very late flights. Is a ticket from MSP to LAX, for example, worth a 6 am departure and several long connections--assuming you don't take the ten or minus seventeen connection time choices that delta.dumb may offer you--to arrive at amost midnight? Or to arrive at your destination in Europe not the next morning but late the second day?
Although to be fair, sometimes delta.dumb does this for revenue international tickets too, even in BE, and doesn't show all logical and allowed connections, specifically the good ones. (No service MSP-AMS. Oh really? I see two or three 330s nonstop every day.)
Although to be fair, sometimes delta.dumb does this for revenue international tickets too, even in BE, and doesn't show all logical and allowed connections, specifically the good ones. (No service MSP-AMS. Oh really? I see two or three 330s nonstop every day.)
Last edited by MSPeconomist; Jun 4, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Jun 4, 2010, 1:05 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
That is not the problem at all. It is TOO easy to use Skymiles: There are plenty of seats out there but you are going to pay 240k for what we were used to at 120k with NW MOST of the time. That said:
1. Domestic use seems to be to be about equal to NW (or close) for FC and Y at low levels. If that is what you use them for you will be fine.
2. TPAC Biz availability (at 120k level) is nowhere near what it was with NW. In-fact I have only been able to get one trip at 120k and the rest wanted 200 to as much as 500k for a single trip. It is abysmal and much worse than NW was. Not sure about Y as I do not use it.
3. TATL. Again, nowhere near the availability at low level as NW BUT it is a bit better than TPAC as AF tends to have quite a few seats at low. Not sure about Y as I do not use it.
My 2cents.
1. Domestic use seems to be to be about equal to NW (or close) for FC and Y at low levels. If that is what you use them for you will be fine.
2. TPAC Biz availability (at 120k level) is nowhere near what it was with NW. In-fact I have only been able to get one trip at 120k and the rest wanted 200 to as much as 500k for a single trip. It is abysmal and much worse than NW was. Not sure about Y as I do not use it.
3. TATL. Again, nowhere near the availability at low level as NW BUT it is a bit better than TPAC as AF tends to have quite a few seats at low. Not sure about Y as I do not use it.
My 2cents.
Jun 4, 2010, 1:17 pm
#7
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: Amtrak Select Plus, Marriott Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,123
That is not the problem at all. It is TOO easy to use Skymiles: There are plenty of seats out there but you are going to pay 240k for what we were used to at 120k with NW MOST of the time. That said:
1. Domestic use seems to be to be about equal to NW (or close) for FC and Y at low levels. If that is what you use them for you will be fine.
2. TPAC Biz availability (at 120k level) is nowhere near what it was with NW. In-fact I have only been able to get one trip at 120k and the rest wanted 200 to as much as 500k for a single trip. It is abysmal and much worse than NW was. Not sure about Y as I do not use it.
3. TATL. Again, nowhere near the availability at low level as NW BUT it is a bit better than TPAC as AF tends to have quite a few seats at low. Not sure about Y as I do not use it.
My 2cents.
1. Domestic use seems to be to be about equal to NW (or close) for FC and Y at low levels. If that is what you use them for you will be fine.
2. TPAC Biz availability (at 120k level) is nowhere near what it was with NW. In-fact I have only been able to get one trip at 120k and the rest wanted 200 to as much as 500k for a single trip. It is abysmal and much worse than NW was. Not sure about Y as I do not use it.
3. TATL. Again, nowhere near the availability at low level as NW BUT it is a bit better than TPAC as AF tends to have quite a few seats at low. Not sure about Y as I do not use it.
My 2cents.
Jun 4, 2010, 1:22 pm
#9
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Gone to Carolina in my mind
Programs: AA ExpMM, DL 2MM, IHG Spire/RA
Posts: 1,986
Delta completely sucks.
There are never any award seats. The FF program is complete crap. Delta should not even be in business.
I would suggest taking all your travel over to WN or CO.
There are never any award seats. The FF program is complete crap. Delta should not even be in business.
I would suggest taking all your travel over to WN or CO.
Jun 4, 2010, 1:30 pm
#11
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MCO
Programs: DL GM/2.7MM, Marriott Lifetime PL, SPG Lifetime PL,Hilton Gold, Natl Lifetime Exec Elite
Posts: 841
Jun 4, 2010, 1:39 pm
#12
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Now just a lowly DL PM/1MM. This industry needs some competition. It's just not enjoyable anymore.
Posts: 3,543
Jun 4, 2010, 2:05 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Sometimes known as [ARG:6 UNDEFINED]
Posts: 26,702
I'm of the opinion that Diamonds and Plats, especially those that post here, are the most disgruntled about DL. International award seats in J? Very difficult, apparently.
Golds like me, who fly almost exclusively domestically? Pretty good results in securing 25K domestic award travel, and now that DL has matched UA and others in eliminating close-in booking fees for award tix, it's even better.
Whenever I'm in an upgraded F seat domestically with wifi, live TV and a power port (about 80% upgrade success for me this year, and even when not successful, I'm in a great exit or bulkhead seat)...I think very hard about which airline provides better amenities domestically, and I can't come up with an alternative.
Golds like me, who fly almost exclusively domestically? Pretty good results in securing 25K domestic award travel, and now that DL has matched UA and others in eliminating close-in booking fees for award tix, it's even better.
Whenever I'm in an upgraded F seat domestically with wifi, live TV and a power port (about 80% upgrade success for me this year, and even when not successful, I'm in a great exit or bulkhead seat)...I think very hard about which airline provides better amenities domestically, and I can't come up with an alternative.
Jun 4, 2010, 2:06 pm
#14
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MKE
Programs: AA Exec Platinum, SPG Platinum / Ambassador / Lifetime Gold, Avis FIRST
Posts: 3,293
I came to DL as a US refugee in Jan 2009. I enjoyed their service in the air, I though their Plat recognition was decent, I got tons of upgrades even when I was Gold - overall a decent airline.
Fast forward to this past January when I tried, for the first time, to redeem Skymiles for two business class tickets to Hong Kong returning from Seoul (with plenty of flexibility and patience) ... and I realized that they are essentially fraudulent.
I'm now back to the *A. With the ANA tool and a little flexibility I had ~5% of the difficulty getting business class worldwide on the *A as I had with Delta.
Fast forward to this past January when I tried, for the first time, to redeem Skymiles for two business class tickets to Hong Kong returning from Seoul (with plenty of flexibility and patience) ... and I realized that they are essentially fraudulent.
I'm now back to the *A. With the ANA tool and a little flexibility I had ~5% of the difficulty getting business class worldwide on the *A as I had with Delta.
Jun 4, 2010, 2:47 pm
#15
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: KUL/TPA/OTP
Programs: UA1k, DL
Posts: 3,138
Wirelessly posted (iPhone 3G: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)
DL is a great airline when you consider it's route network and domestic product. They, like many other companies, have a few opportunities to improve. If DL would address the award calendar and swu, they would truly have a world class frequent flyer program. Once the Int J cabins are all converted to flat beds, DL will have an overall product that's hard to beat. The two when combined would make DL the number one choice of many.
DL is a great airline when you consider it's route network and domestic product. They, like many other companies, have a few opportunities to improve. If DL would address the award calendar and swu, they would truly have a world class frequent flyer program. Once the Int J cabins are all converted to flat beds, DL will have an overall product that's hard to beat. The two when combined would make DL the number one choice of many.