How bad is Delta, really?
Jun 7, 2010, 10:12 am
#76
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
For my calendar trick to work, you need to be performing a search that involves Medallion award inventory, which inherently requires logging in *and* selecting "I am traveling" *and* being a Medallion member. If I understand your series above correctly, you didn't do the first two (you don't even see the option for the second unless you do the first). Try again logging in and checking that you are traveling. Calendar bumps should work.
That being said, I appreciate the tip. Result...
No luck. Logged in as PM, clicked DL only flights (then unclicked), all done with I am travelling.
If you search MSP-PVG, from Nov-April I found not a single green in J.
Jun 7, 2010, 10:54 am
#77
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: STR
Programs: DL SkyMiles PM or DM for 24 years, SkyClub: Lifetime, Delta Million Miler
Posts: 72
I take it you missed this part of the article.
(Editor's note: Delta's contract of carriage is used extensively in the following text, but this should not be taken as an indictment of Delta. All airline contracts of carriage are virtually identical.)
Enjoy the drive......
(Editor's note: Delta's contract of carriage is used extensively in the following text, but this should not be taken as an indictment of Delta. All airline contracts of carriage are virtually identical.)
Enjoy the drive......
I canceled my trip to Montreal on which Delta changed my schedule by 3 hrs, had Delta refund the ticket. Taking a cruise instead...
...and I do enjoy driving ...got a Porsche
Jun 7, 2010, 11:12 am
#78
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: STR
Programs: DL SkyMiles PM or DM for 24 years, SkyClub: Lifetime, Delta Million Miler
Posts: 72
I burned through about 200000 miles last year with NWA because I saw this coming. The NWA award engine was great; I had access to flights on NW, CO, DL, AS, AF, KL,...
Jun 7, 2010, 11:14 am
#79
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BZN
Programs: AA:LT Platinum DL:LT Gold UA:1P MAR:LT Titanium
Posts: 8,291
Well first let me say this sounds absolutely ridiculous (on DL's behalf). Medallion inventory is only supposed to be for domestic and in Y, not international J (I thought). Nonetheless, thanks mooper for sharing your trick. You must have to admit this trick is not really widely known, so your ability to find these hidden lows isn't really as easy as you make it out to be on these forums if you use this trick.
That being said, I appreciate the tip. Result...
No luck. Logged in as PM, clicked DL only flights (then unclicked), all done with I am travelling.
If you search MSP-PVG, from Nov-April I found not a single green in J.
That being said, I appreciate the tip. Result...
No luck. Logged in as PM, clicked DL only flights (then unclicked), all done with I am travelling.
If you search MSP-PVG, from Nov-April I found not a single green in J.
As for your MSP-PVG, again, remember that the calendar trick works *just* for travel wholly within the continental 48 states, logged into a medallion account with "I am traveling" and "Flexible dates" checked, and then a forward followed by back click on the calendar (after waiting for the new one to load) after the initial results display for BOTH departure and return separately. Your use of PVG would probably negate it, though others have said my trick indeed works for international too. (I don't know, as I don't play with international much.)
Jun 7, 2010, 12:13 pm
#81
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,612
DL Works for Me
I appreciate all of the comments posted here.
I came to NW's ff program mostly by accident: Booked the NW "B" fare of a few hundred dollars for YVR-BUD at few years back, got a WorldPerks VISA card to get some miles for a mileage upgrade. Then did a pair of Skyteam ex-CMB rt's when they were actually affordable, and it is not hard to see how I made plat without a whole lot of pain or effort.
Compared to others, I have several advantages: I live near competitive cities (LAX/SNA/SAN). I don't have to fly for business. I don't worry about expensive "M" fare international upgrades because can't afford them anyway even if they were "reasonable".
Rollover miles makes it pretty easy to keep plat, making Skymiles the program of choice for someone wanting status without a lot of painful domestic flying.
I rolled over about 47,000 miles last year, and will roll at least 25,000 this year to retain plat for the following year.
I will never redeem for anything except "low" international awards. It is unfortunate that this means no more (old NW) 747 biz cabin on the NRT-LAX route. However, as long as there is *something* redeemable, that is alright.
At least I have never heard of Delta imitating United's infamous "Starnet" blocking. As long as I can redeem transpacific on KE, CZ, MU or others, that is good enough for me. Also, nice to have an option for AF/KL to Europe, too.
It isn't a matter of going where I want, when I want, and on whom I want.
It is good enough for me to redeem "somewhere", "sometime", and "some airline" (as long it is a biz cabin).
Oh, I also really like the Skyteam Plus status for lounge access and international trips, and the Delta's 800 plat number at least means I get reasonable customer service.
I have thought about United, but they only do status challenges that require a lot of flying on United Airlines. Ain't going to happen because I fly more on other *A carries like TG and OZ. United is only for domestic travel to visit relative in COS or flying up and down the west coast, which DL doesn't cover very well (at least until they integrate better with Alaska Airlines).
Perhaps the people happiest with Skymiles aren't really the ones who are the highest revenue generators for Delta. I hope Skymiles never becomes a Virgin America "dollar spend" kind of ff program.
I came to NW's ff program mostly by accident: Booked the NW "B" fare of a few hundred dollars for YVR-BUD at few years back, got a WorldPerks VISA card to get some miles for a mileage upgrade. Then did a pair of Skyteam ex-CMB rt's when they were actually affordable, and it is not hard to see how I made plat without a whole lot of pain or effort.
Compared to others, I have several advantages: I live near competitive cities (LAX/SNA/SAN). I don't have to fly for business. I don't worry about expensive "M" fare international upgrades because can't afford them anyway even if they were "reasonable".
Rollover miles makes it pretty easy to keep plat, making Skymiles the program of choice for someone wanting status without a lot of painful domestic flying.
I rolled over about 47,000 miles last year, and will roll at least 25,000 this year to retain plat for the following year.
I will never redeem for anything except "low" international awards. It is unfortunate that this means no more (old NW) 747 biz cabin on the NRT-LAX route. However, as long as there is *something* redeemable, that is alright.
At least I have never heard of Delta imitating United's infamous "Starnet" blocking. As long as I can redeem transpacific on KE, CZ, MU or others, that is good enough for me. Also, nice to have an option for AF/KL to Europe, too.
It isn't a matter of going where I want, when I want, and on whom I want.
It is good enough for me to redeem "somewhere", "sometime", and "some airline" (as long it is a biz cabin).
Oh, I also really like the Skyteam Plus status for lounge access and international trips, and the Delta's 800 plat number at least means I get reasonable customer service.
I have thought about United, but they only do status challenges that require a lot of flying on United Airlines. Ain't going to happen because I fly more on other *A carries like TG and OZ. United is only for domestic travel to visit relative in COS or flying up and down the west coast, which DL doesn't cover very well (at least until they integrate better with Alaska Airlines).
Perhaps the people happiest with Skymiles aren't really the ones who are the highest revenue generators for Delta. I hope Skymiles never becomes a Virgin America "dollar spend" kind of ff program.
Last edited by Bowgie; Jun 7, 2010 at 12:22 pm Reason: added a little on rollover
Jun 7, 2010, 1:56 pm
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Freeload Univ. Where are you sitting?
Posts: 14,818
Well .....
I kind of expected a few replies. I take the weekend off, and, ...well,... I think I've struck a nerve, as they say.
Anyhow, still no required flying and I'm pretty glad now that I burned off my 500K NW miles.
AA and BA are looking pretty good and I have a significant stash there. Onward and upward!
Thanks all.
I kind of expected a few replies. I take the weekend off, and, ...well,... I think I've struck a nerve, as they say.
Anyhow, still no required flying and I'm pretty glad now that I burned off my 500K NW miles.
AA and BA are looking pretty good and I have a significant stash there. Onward and upward!
Thanks all.
Jun 7, 2010, 2:13 pm
#83
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: DL DM/MM; UA Premier 1K; AA EXP; ICH Plat Ambassador
Posts: 1,565
You have to admit that this is probably an odd objective for a loyalty program of a publicly traded company, no?
Jun 7, 2010, 4:04 pm
#84
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,612
You Win
After reading your challenge, I tried and failed. Could not do 1 pax rt in biz elite for 120k miles. I found some 180k this summer. Also found some 120k on the calendar that turned into 180k when I clicked thru.
Calender sucks even worse than I imagined.
However, in my original post, I was thinking of partner flights, not Delta.
For example, trying LAX-CAN gets a message of "This is not a Delta destination. Please call Delta to obtain partner award availability."
(CZ flies a LAX-CAN nonstop)
Calender sucks even worse than I imagined.
However, in my original post, I was thinking of partner flights, not Delta.
For example, trying LAX-CAN gets a message of "This is not a Delta destination. Please call Delta to obtain partner award availability."
(CZ flies a LAX-CAN nonstop)
Last edited by Bowgie; Jun 7, 2010 at 4:04 pm Reason: spelling
Jun 9, 2010, 8:50 am
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
Agreed on all points. The trick shouldn't be needed in the first place, and I doubt it's widely known. I'm kind of surprised, however, that it hasn't been posted about much on FT, as it is a rather obvious thing to try once you notice that results are finicky as you browse the calendar.
As for your MSP-PVG, again, remember that the calendar trick works *just* for travel wholly within the continental 48 states, logged into a medallion account with "I am traveling" and "Flexible dates" checked, and then a forward followed by back click on the calendar (after waiting for the new one to load) after the initial results display for BOTH departure and return separately. Your use of PVG would probably negate it, though others have said my trick indeed works for international too. (I don't know, as I don't play with international much.)
As for your MSP-PVG, again, remember that the calendar trick works *just* for travel wholly within the continental 48 states, logged into a medallion account with "I am traveling" and "Flexible dates" checked, and then a forward followed by back click on the calendar (after waiting for the new one to load) after the initial results display for BOTH departure and return separately. Your use of PVG would probably negate it, though others have said my trick indeed works for international too. (I don't know, as I don't play with international much.)
I know you say for you it only works domestically, so perhaps you are right that PVG negates it.Nonetheless thanks for the trick. In case the calendar doesn't get fixed I'll keep it in the back pocket for the future.
You do have to admit, not having ANY green from Nov-May is a bit ridiculous no? I mean, check CO/AA and they have what I would consider plenty of options, and compare that to DL where I can't find even 1 for a 6 month period.
Despite trying all the tricks, nothing has worked and I'm beginning to become convinced that NONE can be found (at least for now). If that is the case, I really do think some objective evidence exists to say how bad international J (esp to Asia) is.
Jun 9, 2010, 10:20 am
#86
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AVL
Programs: AA/BA/DL/US Air
Posts: 426
Well first let me say this sounds absolutely ridiculous (on DL's behalf). Medallion inventory is only supposed to be for domestic and in Y, not international J (I thought). Nonetheless, thanks mooper for sharing your trick. You must have to admit this trick is not really widely known, so your ability to find these hidden lows isn't really as easy as you make it out to be on these forums if you use this trick.
That being said, I appreciate the tip. Result...
No luck. Logged in as PM, clicked DL only flights (then unclicked), all done with I am travelling.
If you search MSP-PVG, from Nov-April I found not a single green in J.
That being said, I appreciate the tip. Result...
No luck. Logged in as PM, clicked DL only flights (then unclicked), all done with I am travelling.
If you search MSP-PVG, from Nov-April I found not a single green in J.
The calendar showed MED going and HIGH returning. Thus 30 + 75000 divided by half only equals 52,500 miles. The 120000 apparently is a SUPER HIGH Tier..... What am I missing?
Jun 9, 2010, 10:23 am
#87
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SLC
Programs: Delta Skymiles DM, Priority Club Platinum Elite
Posts: 394
What I don't understand is the three tier system that doesn't add up. I just searched MSP-PVG in coach and came up with 120,000 SM. If LOW is 30,000, MED is 60,000 & High is 75,000.... where do they get 120,000 SM?
The calendar showed MED going and HIGH returning. Thus 30 + 75000 divided by half only equals 52,500 miles. The 120000 apparently is a SUPER HIGH Tier..... What am I missing?
The calendar showed MED going and HIGH returning. Thus 30 + 75000 divided by half only equals 52,500 miles. The 120000 apparently is a SUPER HIGH Tier..... What am I missing?
Jun 9, 2010, 10:29 am
#88
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AVL
Programs: AA/BA/DL/US Air
Posts: 426
Jun 9, 2010, 10:29 am
#89
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA. UA 1K, reluctant but * best in class * DL FO/MM. Former BA jumpseat rider and scourge of Dilbertian management and apologists. As LX might - and do - say: "....an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines"
Posts: 3,386
What I don't understand is the three tier system that doesn't add up. I just searched MSP-PVG in coach and came up with 120,000 SM. If LOW is 30,000, MED is 60,000 & High is 75,000.... where do they get 120,000 SM?
The calendar showed MED going and HIGH returning. Thus 30 + 75000 divided by half only equals 52,500 miles. The 120000 apparently is a SUPER HIGH Tier..... What am I missing?
The calendar showed MED going and HIGH returning. Thus 30 + 75000 divided by half only equals 52,500 miles. The 120000 apparently is a SUPER HIGH Tier..... What am I missing?
They know all about it from the cacophony of feedback here and elsewhere, so they are persisting with this plan deliberately.
They do so because it a. results in higher average mileage redemptions and b. disincentivizes redemption in the first place, resulting in fewer actual redemptions. Because total liability reduction is the product of number of redemptions times average mileage per redemption, the aim of the strategy is crystal clear. It reduces liability, at the same time as they sell more SM to vendors such as AmEx.
It means, if integrity is defined as delivering product according to published T&C, then DL SM lacks integrity. For this reason. Among others.
Jun 9, 2010, 10:56 am
#90
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Diego
Programs: IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, DL Diamond and 1MM
Posts: 3,612
What I don't understand is the three tier system that doesn't add up. I just searched MSP-PVG in coach and came up with 120,000 SM. If LOW is 30,000, MED is 60,000 & High is 75,000.... where do they get 120,000 SM?
The calendar showed MED going and HIGH returning. Thus 30 + 75000 divided by half only equals 52,500 miles. The 120000 apparently is a SUPER HIGH Tier..... What am I missing?
The calendar showed MED going and HIGH returning. Thus 30 + 75000 divided by half only equals 52,500 miles. The 120000 apparently is a SUPER HIGH Tier..... What am I missing?
If you get 120,000 miles for a coach ticket for MSP-PVG, then that is a medium award in both direction (60k + 60k). If calendar says "Medium" outbound and "High" for the return, then it is wrong, but this time in your favor. Or to put it another way, calendar often has no relation to the mileage cost of the ticket when you click thru the days you are trying to price.