Sep 3, 2014, 3:39 pm
Last edit by: mbwmbw
Official Response from ExpertFlyer regarding Delta's ability to restrict data:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23465105-post182.html
Check the updated thread at (see the Wiki at the top):
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...available.html
You will see that they actually used screenshots of ExpertFlyer. I'm sure someone in DL Corporate just saw this and said it's making a headache for us and not providing any additional value so shut it down.... Almost guarantee it.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23465105-post182.html
Hi folks,
All of us here at ExpertFlyer just want to say thank you for the positive support we've been receiving, both on FT and via email.
Reading some of the posts on this thread it appears there might be some misconceptions on how airline data is distributed. To be clear, a GDS distributes airline data to its customers at the discretion of the airline. The airline-GDS contracts state that the airline controls the flow of data thru the GDS and if an airline decides that they don't want a particular GDS customer, agency or non-agency, to have their data the GDS must block data from being available to a customer if the airline asks them to. As noted in our quoted statement, Delta has already done this with many online travel agencies.
So as a practical matter, in the near term this meant that we had no choice and didn't "cave" as some have speculated, the DL information was going to be withheld with or without our participation. We continue to explore our options but for now, rightly or wrongly, the GDS-agency contracts allow for this as they have the right to modify the content made available to agencies.
We cannot comment on any future plans regarding this specific matter however we will continue to work on behalf of our customers to add as much value as possible to ExpertFlyer.
-The ExpertFlyer.com Team
All of us here at ExpertFlyer just want to say thank you for the positive support we've been receiving, both on FT and via email.
Reading some of the posts on this thread it appears there might be some misconceptions on how airline data is distributed. To be clear, a GDS distributes airline data to its customers at the discretion of the airline. The airline-GDS contracts state that the airline controls the flow of data thru the GDS and if an airline decides that they don't want a particular GDS customer, agency or non-agency, to have their data the GDS must block data from being available to a customer if the airline asks them to. As noted in our quoted statement, Delta has already done this with many online travel agencies.
So as a practical matter, in the near term this meant that we had no choice and didn't "cave" as some have speculated, the DL information was going to be withheld with or without our participation. We continue to explore our options but for now, rightly or wrongly, the GDS-agency contracts allow for this as they have the right to modify the content made available to agencies.
We cannot comment on any future plans regarding this specific matter however we will continue to work on behalf of our customers to add as much value as possible to ExpertFlyer.
-The ExpertFlyer.com Team
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...available.html
You will see that they actually used screenshots of ExpertFlyer. I'm sure someone in DL Corporate just saw this and said it's making a headache for us and not providing any additional value so shut it down.... Almost guarantee it.
DL forces ExpertFlyer to remove ALL data pertaining to DL flights
Aug 31, 2014, 11:59 pm
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: DL DM 2MM, Marriott LT Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 15,202
Anti-consumer move is why. Delta doesn't want us to have any information that may allow us to make our lives easier in booking or performing flight research, if there is any chance it could be used to give us an 'edge' for getting a better fare.
Sep 1, 2014, 12:02 am
#18
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Makati City, Philippines
Programs: Delta Skymiles DM, CX GO, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 1,361
I would not put it past DL to start setting a limit on now many inquiries one can make before they charge you to check for more, such as upgrade availability and SDC to name a few. It's all about control and money. They must see it as a way to milk a few more dollars out of their customers. This won't be the end of this, expect more enhancements to come in the near future.
Sep 1, 2014, 12:12 am
#19
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: DL DM, UA 1K, AA EXP, US G, SPG P, HH D, MR G, NEXUS/GE, DL AMEX Reserve
Posts: 2,035
I bet this lawsuit had something to do with it.
They used ExpertFlyer to pull the fare inventories as a basis for suing Delta...
Below are portions of the lawsuit citing ExpertFlyer...
They used ExpertFlyer to pull the fare inventories as a basis for suing Delta...
Below are portions of the lawsuit citing ExpertFlyer...
26. This fare class and tariff data is published by Delta to airline agents and users of any Global Distribution System (“GDS”). Certain publicly available websites make GDS data available for a fee, including expertflyer.com.
42. Websites such as expertflyer.com and flightstats.com allow specialized users to review fare class availability for given flights in real time
43. In November, 2012, Plaintiff’s counsel compared, in real time, prices and fare classes made available to consumers on delta.com, with Delta’s true inventory—as revealed by Delta’s own voluntary GDS reporting, and as displayed on expertflyer.com.
47. Real-time availability on expertflyer.com revealed that for Flight DL 1889, from MSY to SLC, available seats existed in fare class “T”—the second to lowest fare class at the time. See Exhibit B. Real-time availability on expertflyer.com and on delta.com also revealed that for Flight DL 2157, from SLC to SEA, available seats existed in fare class “T”—again, the second to lowest fare class. See Exhibit C.
71. Specifically, counsel conducted seat inventory searches using expertflyer.com on four different dates, at different times of the day, and for travel on 12 different future dates, all consistent with the parameters discussed above, which mimicked Plaintiff’s original search on delta.com.
42. Websites such as expertflyer.com and flightstats.com allow specialized users to review fare class availability for given flights in real time
43. In November, 2012, Plaintiff’s counsel compared, in real time, prices and fare classes made available to consumers on delta.com, with Delta’s true inventory—as revealed by Delta’s own voluntary GDS reporting, and as displayed on expertflyer.com.
47. Real-time availability on expertflyer.com revealed that for Flight DL 1889, from MSY to SLC, available seats existed in fare class “T”—the second to lowest fare class at the time. See Exhibit B. Real-time availability on expertflyer.com and on delta.com also revealed that for Flight DL 2157, from SLC to SEA, available seats existed in fare class “T”—again, the second to lowest fare class. See Exhibit C.
71. Specifically, counsel conducted seat inventory searches using expertflyer.com on four different dates, at different times of the day, and for travel on 12 different future dates, all consistent with the parameters discussed above, which mimicked Plaintiff’s original search on delta.com.
Sep 1, 2014, 12:48 am
#21
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: CONUS
Posts: 947
Hard to understand Delta's rationale except that it's a money grab. Apparently Delta does not want informed customers. By not allowing their savvy and frequent fliers to have access to information that informs them of decisions Delta stands to earn more money or save money by making the relationship strictly one-way.
I particularly rely on EF for day of departure standby and flight changes. By knowing the fare classes available and live, real-time seat assignments I'm able to make an informed decision and avoid wasting precious time (and Delta's I would mention as well by avoiding constant calls to the Diamond line).
Wouldn't it be nice if Delta posted inventory on the website like United? Were they to do that it would make a little more sense. Otherwise this sits in the same chair as the Jeffbo decisions (devaluations) with SkyMiles that reeked of resentment and disdain for Delta's supposedly vital HVC's and were communicated as such.
A well run airline with generally good service and a good product but a continual problem with demeaning, secretive pull downs that mostly hit their most loyal customers.
I particularly rely on EF for day of departure standby and flight changes. By knowing the fare classes available and live, real-time seat assignments I'm able to make an informed decision and avoid wasting precious time (and Delta's I would mention as well by avoiding constant calls to the Diamond line).
Wouldn't it be nice if Delta posted inventory on the website like United? Were they to do that it would make a little more sense. Otherwise this sits in the same chair as the Jeffbo decisions (devaluations) with SkyMiles that reeked of resentment and disdain for Delta's supposedly vital HVC's and were communicated as such.
A well run airline with generally good service and a good product but a continual problem with demeaning, secretive pull downs that mostly hit their most loyal customers.
Sep 1, 2014, 1:19 am
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,062
I bet this lawsuit had something to do with it.
They used ExpertFlyer to pull the fare inventories as a basis for suing Delta...
Below are portions of the lawsuit citing ExpertFlyer...
They used ExpertFlyer to pull the fare inventories as a basis for suing Delta...
Below are portions of the lawsuit citing ExpertFlyer...
I see V fare bucket availability for DL 1845 DTW-LAX tomorrow, yet they won't show me a V fare ticket for sale. Do that mean I can sue Delta?
Last edited by xliioper; Sep 1, 2014 at 1:25 am
Sep 1, 2014, 1:22 am
#24
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: DL DM, UA 1K, AA EXP, US G, SPG P, HH D, MR G, NEXUS/GE, DL AMEX Reserve
Posts: 2,035
Looks like flightstats.com still has bucket availability. So much for that theory. Simply looking at bucket availability is just plain silly. What about fare requirements like advance purchase, minimum stay, and married segment logic? Just because there's T bucket available on MSY-SLC and SLC-SEA does not mean it's bookable as a ticket for MSY-SEA and that DL is withholding something from you. Maybe you meet the requirements to book a broken T fare on MSY-SLC and SLC-SEA, but there's no guarantee that's going to be cheaper as a broken fare simply because it's a lower fare class than DL is selling for MSY-SEA.
Sep 1, 2014, 1:36 am
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,062
Yes, and it's gibberish. They saw T bucket availability for MSY-SLC and SLC-SEA on expertflyer and then attempted to book a one-way on MSY-SEA and Delta didn't give them a T fare. Surprise! Was there actually a valid T fare for a one-way ticket? I'm guessing no. How many T fares do you see that are valid for one-way tickets? Bottomline, it's not just about the bucket availability, the fare rules are equally important. But that concept appears to be completely lost on them. They complain about married segment logic, but that's relevant no matter who you book from. How does that relate to the Best Fare Guarantee??
Last edited by xliioper; Sep 1, 2014 at 1:47 am
Sep 1, 2014, 3:20 am
#27
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: OKC
Programs: DL DM/2.768MM, Global Entry, Titanium_Marriott, GHertz
Posts: 6,752
Quoting the EF email:
"Since our inception almost 10 years ago we have accessed Delta information through a GDS where they publish information for the benefit of various travel providers. We have always done this with the full knowledge and tacit approval of Delta."
I notice that EF has revised their version of how this played out since we are now told they had "tacit approval" and nothing is said about payment to DL.
Then again, if others would have joined us when they took OP/RP away from us would this have played out differently? In any event, I see no reason to think that DL is going to empower us with useful data on DL's web or apps. Tweeting often does not work and calling can be hit or miss and mostly miss since a DM agent does not know how to customize a trip for me like EF could do in terms of dates, routes, aircraft, and seats while securing OP inventory.
I have held on to EF during the last round, but this looks like the end for DL data of any kind.
"Since our inception almost 10 years ago we have accessed Delta information through a GDS where they publish information for the benefit of various travel providers. We have always done this with the full knowledge and tacit approval of Delta."
I notice that EF has revised their version of how this played out since we are now told they had "tacit approval" and nothing is said about payment to DL.
Then again, if others would have joined us when they took OP/RP away from us would this have played out differently? In any event, I see no reason to think that DL is going to empower us with useful data on DL's web or apps. Tweeting often does not work and calling can be hit or miss and mostly miss since a DM agent does not know how to customize a trip for me like EF could do in terms of dates, routes, aircraft, and seats while securing OP inventory.
I have held on to EF during the last round, but this looks like the end for DL data of any kind.
Sep 1, 2014, 3:27 am
#28
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: United Arab Emirates & Arizona, USA
Programs: UA MM/1P, EK Au, QR, TK, Marriott Life Ti, Hilton Dia, IC Dia, Hyatt Glob, Accor Pt, Shangri-La
Posts: 4,526
Indeed. Kudos to ExpertFlyer for (assuming it's true) a pretty candid statement, refreshing in today's swamp of corporate gobbledygook. I suppose they realize that their entire business model is under threat.
Sep 1, 2014, 6:00 am
#30
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, DL MM
Posts: 4,246
DL revenue management plays big games with inventory. Often times I find they hold on to cheaper inventory until the flight gets closer. All airlines do this, but I find that when you look up fares on the matrix the other airlines seem to release cheaper inventory much earlier.
EF was great for this because you could set up an alert for a K fare and when DL would open up the inventory you would get an email and could but the ticket.
Now, I'll have to just guess and keep checking which will mean there will be scenarios where DL opens K fares and then they get sold and I'll forget to check.
Fabulous, this will definitely end up costing me $$$
P.S. Not really my worry, but this has got to be terrible news for EF, I have to imagine they will lose quite a few customers
EF was great for this because you could set up an alert for a K fare and when DL would open up the inventory you would get an email and could but the ticket.
Now, I'll have to just guess and keep checking which will mean there will be scenarios where DL opens K fares and then they get sold and I'll forget to check.
Fabulous, this will definitely end up costing me $$$
P.S. Not really my worry, but this has got to be terrible news for EF, I have to imagine they will lose quite a few customers