dliesse

True -- but there also is no other industry where the taxes will vary depending on your purchase. All taxable items in a single city will have the same tax. All hotels in a single city will probably have the same tax.

An airline trip, on the other hand, will have varying taxes depending on the exact route. This will usually be a slight difference in the PFCs (which are taxes without the word "tax" attached), but it's still a difference.

As far as I'm concerned, all add-on costs that are mandatory should be included in a quoted price (this goes for "resort fee" ripoffs at hotels, too). Extra charges that can be avoided are safely omitted. Remember that most travelers aren't as savvy as the average denizen of these forums!

indufan

I will join the chorus and agree that this a bad idea. In fact, I think we should go the other way with this and include all taxes and fees on ALL items sold.

javabytes

Only to a point. All airlines will have more or less the same taxes. With the same origin and destination, any variation in taxes and PFCs will be an immaterial amount. Every fee imposed by the airline, though, I'm fully in favor of requiring be included in the advertised price.

Zeeb

I'd be totally okay with that as well... starting with cell phone and cable bills!

RealHJ

That is a peculiar way of doing business in the US (and Canada) where prices advertised are not the true prices. Practically everywhere else in the world, the advertised price is the price you pay for everything. Instead of going backwards, the US should march forwards and require the real price to be advertised everywhere, from airfare, through gas stations, mobile phone service and to grocery stores (and everything else inbetween).

The gov't taxes and such are, and should be always, displayed on the receipt. So is the case in the rest of the world and it works perfectly fine, and how much you pay is never a surprise. Only in the US and Canada do merchants engage in deceptive practices by not displaying the actual price to the consumer, but rather just the portion that they get to keep of the price.

RealHJ

+1000 ^

Dieuwer

How did it come about?

pbarnette

I remember seeing it. I remember it not bothering me. It was what it was, but it added only a minute or so to any search for fares. Sure, in the abstract, I'd say that transparency is better and that they should include everything, but I don't think I was materially harmed before and, accordingly, don't have a particularly strong opinion.

pbarnette

How did the US sales tax come about? The same way most sales taxes came about. The US differs in that we didn't switch to a VAT, partly because we did not have the same problems with tax avoidance as other jurisdictions. Additionally, the administrative burden on enterprises is higher for VAT than for sales tax - the payment/reclaim process is, frankly, stupid and serves only to minimize leakage of tax revenue.

Now why does the US have the tradition of not including sales taxes? Part of it is retailers wanting to show the best possible price. Part of it is a belief that you should know how much tax you are paying and the much lower levels of consumption taxes in the US suggests that making them clear and obvious has some effect on reducing public acceptance of them. Finally, the sales tax in the US is a hodgepodge of local and state laws and national or even regional advertising would be difficult in an environment of all-in prices.

Honestly, unless you are completely inept at basic arithmetic, I fail to see the big issue with not including taxes in the listed prices.

gooselee

I don't think this is an issue for most FTers. For the lowest common denominators of US society though...

...I can see Joe Schmoe taking the first flight of his life somehow not noticing that the $29 sale fare he purchased to take the kids to Disneyland ended up pricing to $400/person when he clicked "Purchase", then not noticing it on the credit card bill that he carries $10k of rolling debt on, then being unable to check into their hotel upon arrival because the card is now maxed out, then having their once-in-a-lifetime vacation ruined because of Big Bad Evil Airways, then getting a pity party thrown for him in the next edition of USA Today and the local evening news.

If you live in the US, you can't tell me you haven't shaken your head at some news story similar to that before...

readywhenyouare

Sure, I've seen those stories but I've never had any sympathy for those people either. Anyone who would be that reckless in arranging a vacation is hardly deserving of a pity party.

gooselee

To be clear, I have nearly zero sympathy for them, too. But I think it helps illuminate why all of this is even an issue being debated.

For even the most casual FT'er or anyone with moderate intelligence, changing what prices are or aren't included in an ad won't stop us from being able to shop around, it'll just make it somewhat more or less annoying and time-consuming.

I'm an advocate of the stupid-proof route because a) it'll also make my life easier and b) I'll hopefully have to see less stories like the one I described.

Dieuwer

Then why not display everything at a silly low price and at the registry add a "energy fee", "display fee", "packaging fee", etc. and "sales tax"?

lol

pbarnette

Is there a particular reason why you are choosing to mix costs of production with costs of taxation? They are quite different things. But I don't, in theory, have a significant problem with further breakdown of the price, as long as the final cost is knowable and fixed.

pbarnette

I think that most people are smarter than you give them credit for. With airfares, in particular, most folks have a disproportional obsession with them and I'm always a bit amazed at the lengths folks will go through to save a few dollars. Will some people be surprised? A few, I guess, but I don't think it is a massive issue.

Personally, I don't find the problem much worse than other attempts by airlines to obfuscate prices. For example, WN doesn't make their prices readily available on any comparison shopping sites. I don't believe that benefits consumers, but most consumers adapt anyway.