View Poll Results: Please vote for the activities you are interested in
Tour of the old Tempelhof Airport
19
86.36%
Historic Berlin tour
11
50.00%
Berlin street art tour and workshop
4
18.18%
Spree River cruise
9
40.91%
Underground Berlin tour looking at the Berlin Wall and escape routes
18
81.82%
Anything else you would like to see (please post suggestions in the thread)
0
0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll
Last edit by: arollins
Hi Guys
Feel free to add your arrival/departure and hotel information below.
*A Flyer
The BerlinDo Map
The Intinerary
Thursday 6 October
Welcome Drinks
Time: 18:00
Venue: John Muir
Address: Skalitzerstrasse 51, Berlin-Kreuzberg
Closest Transport: U Gorlitzer Bahnhof
Please have cash to pay your tab.
Dinner
Time: 20:00
Venue: Hasir Ocakbasi Restaurant
Address: Adalbertstrasse 12, Berlin-Kreuzberg
Closest Transport: U Kottbusser Tor
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Friday 7 October
Berlin Express Tour
Time: 09:50 for 10:00
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Ending Point: Brandenburg Gate
Free time to find lunch and explore the area. Perhaps try and get a booking to visit the Reichstag Dome, head to the Memorial for the Murdered Jews of Europe or take a walk through the Tiergarten.
Rebel Berlin Tour
Time: 14:20 for 14:30
Meeting Point: Pariser Platz/Brandenburg Gate (outside French Embassy)
Closest Transport: S+U Brandenburger Tor
Ending Point: Schillingbrucke, Berlin-Friedichshain
Dinner
Time: 19:00
Venue: Weihenstephaner Berlin
Address: Hackeschermarkt, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: S Hackeschermarkt
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Beer Tour
Leaving after we have finished dinner in two groups. We will head on different routes to avoid overcrowding.
Saturday 8 October
Tempelhof Airport Tour
Time: 09:15 at Meeting Point for 09:45 at Tempelhof Airport
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Tour Start: Tempelhof Airport General Aviation Terminal, Tempelhofer Damm 1-7
Closest Transport: U Platz der Luftbrucke
Free time to find lunch and return to Gendarmenmarkt for the Spies and Escapes Tour. Maybe checkout Mehringdamm (home to some of Berlin's most famous Currywurst (Curry 36) and Doner Kebap (Mustafa's)) or head back into the centre of town.
Spies and Escapes Tour
Time: 14:20 for 14:30
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Ending Point: Mauerpark
Dinner
Time: 19:30
Venue: Maximilians
Address: Friedrichstrasse 185-190, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte
Please have cash to pay for drinks.
Sunday 9 October
Brunch
Time: 09:30 at Meeting Point for 10:00 at Restaurant
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Venue: Hofbrau Berlin
Address: Karl-Liebknecht-Strasse 30, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: S+U Alexanderplatz
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Cruise
Time: 12:15 for 12:30 (Do Not Be Late!)
Meeting Point: Stern und Kreis Schiffahrtstelle Reichstag Ufer/Friedrich Strasse
Closest Transport: S+U Friedrichstrasse
Flights
Example User: Arrive BA001 06OCT 1000, Depart BA002 09OCT 2000
polkacat: Arrive BA992 06OCT 13:45, Depart BA991 11OCT 11:00
gvdIAD: Arrive SN2581 06OCT 11:10, Depart 4U8460 10OCT 12:55
violist: Arr by land; depart UA 963 11OCT 09:40
cistavoda: Arrive BA8493 07OCT 15:40, Depart AY918 08OCT 19:10
NewbieRunner: Arrive LH192 06OCT 17:55, Depart LH201 09OCT 19:45
kirkwoodj: Arrive LH184 07OCT 13:55, Depart LH2045 09OCT 18:00
arollins & +1 Arrive BA992 06OCT 13:45, Depart BA991 11OCT 11:00
Hotel
Example User: Hilton Gendarmenmarkt
polkacat: Grand Hyatt Berlin
gvdIAD: Hampton Berlin West (06OCT-07OCT), Hilton Gendarmenmarkt (07OCT-10OCT)
restlessinRNO: Crowne Plaza Potsdamer Platz (Oct.6), Hilton Gendarmenmarkt (Oct.7-10).
violist: Hampton Berlin West
cistavoda: Radisson Blu Berlin
NewbieRunner: Sofitel Berlin Gendarmenmarkt (06-08OCT), Hilton Gendarmenmarkt (08-09OCT)
kirkwoodj: Hilton Berlin
arollins: Park Inn Radisson (Oct 6-11)
Feel free to add your arrival/departure and hotel information below.
*A Flyer
The BerlinDo Map
The Intinerary
Thursday 6 October
Welcome Drinks
Time: 18:00
Venue: John Muir
Address: Skalitzerstrasse 51, Berlin-Kreuzberg
Closest Transport: U Gorlitzer Bahnhof
Please have cash to pay your tab.
Dinner
Time: 20:00
Venue: Hasir Ocakbasi Restaurant
Address: Adalbertstrasse 12, Berlin-Kreuzberg
Closest Transport: U Kottbusser Tor
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Friday 7 October
Berlin Express Tour
Time: 09:50 for 10:00
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Ending Point: Brandenburg Gate
Free time to find lunch and explore the area. Perhaps try and get a booking to visit the Reichstag Dome, head to the Memorial for the Murdered Jews of Europe or take a walk through the Tiergarten.
Rebel Berlin Tour
Time: 14:20 for 14:30
Meeting Point: Pariser Platz/Brandenburg Gate (outside French Embassy)
Closest Transport: S+U Brandenburger Tor
Ending Point: Schillingbrucke, Berlin-Friedichshain
Dinner
Time: 19:00
Venue: Weihenstephaner Berlin
Address: Hackeschermarkt, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: S Hackeschermarkt
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Beer Tour
Leaving after we have finished dinner in two groups. We will head on different routes to avoid overcrowding.
Saturday 8 October
Tempelhof Airport Tour
Time: 09:15 at Meeting Point for 09:45 at Tempelhof Airport
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Tour Start: Tempelhof Airport General Aviation Terminal, Tempelhofer Damm 1-7
Closest Transport: U Platz der Luftbrucke
Free time to find lunch and return to Gendarmenmarkt for the Spies and Escapes Tour. Maybe checkout Mehringdamm (home to some of Berlin's most famous Currywurst (Curry 36) and Doner Kebap (Mustafa's)) or head back into the centre of town.
Spies and Escapes Tour
Time: 14:20 for 14:30
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Ending Point: Mauerpark
Dinner
Time: 19:30
Venue: Maximilians
Address: Friedrichstrasse 185-190, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte
Please have cash to pay for drinks.
Sunday 9 October
Brunch
Time: 09:30 at Meeting Point for 10:00 at Restaurant
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Venue: Hofbrau Berlin
Address: Karl-Liebknecht-Strasse 30, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: S+U Alexanderplatz
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Cruise
Time: 12:15 for 12:30 (Do Not Be Late!)
Meeting Point: Stern und Kreis Schiffahrtstelle Reichstag Ufer/Friedrich Strasse
Closest Transport: S+U Friedrichstrasse
Flights
Example User: Arrive BA001 06OCT 1000, Depart BA002 09OCT 2000
polkacat: Arrive BA992 06OCT 13:45, Depart BA991 11OCT 11:00
gvdIAD: Arrive SN2581 06OCT 11:10, Depart 4U8460 10OCT 12:55
violist: Arr by land; depart UA 963 11OCT 09:40
cistavoda: Arrive BA8493 07OCT 15:40, Depart AY918 08OCT 19:10
NewbieRunner: Arrive LH192 06OCT 17:55, Depart LH201 09OCT 19:45
kirkwoodj: Arrive LH184 07OCT 13:55, Depart LH2045 09OCT 18:00
arollins & +1 Arrive BA992 06OCT 13:45, Depart BA991 11OCT 11:00
Hotel
Example User: Hilton Gendarmenmarkt
polkacat: Grand Hyatt Berlin
gvdIAD: Hampton Berlin West (06OCT-07OCT), Hilton Gendarmenmarkt (07OCT-10OCT)
restlessinRNO: Crowne Plaza Potsdamer Platz (Oct.6), Hilton Gendarmenmarkt (Oct.7-10).
violist: Hampton Berlin West
cistavoda: Radisson Blu Berlin
NewbieRunner: Sofitel Berlin Gendarmenmarkt (06-08OCT), Hilton Gendarmenmarkt (08-09OCT)
kirkwoodj: Hilton Berlin
arollins: Park Inn Radisson (Oct 6-11)
1st Berlin Do - 7 to 9 October 2016
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CBR
Programs: QF WP, AC*G
Posts: 1,223
1st Berlin Do - 6 to 9 October 2016
The last Franconian Do was a dangerous thing (thanks f0zzyNUE) and I may, under some level of coercion, have agreed to host a Do here in Die Deutsche Hauptstadt, Berlin.
So, save the date, we will be meeting over the US Columbus Day weekend from Thursday 6 to Sunday 9 October 2016 for beer, food and just a little Berlin history.
As a general idea the weekend will likely be structured a bit like OzFest and Franconian Do with a couple of activities during the day and a dinner in the evening but with everything being pretty casual so that everyone has plenty of fun. The plan will be for welcome drinks and dinner on Thursday with the main Do Activities on Friday and Saturday. Sunday should be a lazy day to say farewell.
More details will follow but hopefully you can make it just 365 days (less than that now) from now.
So, save the date, we will be meeting over the US Columbus Day weekend from Thursday 6 to Sunday 9 October 2016 for beer, food and just a little Berlin history.
As a general idea the weekend will likely be structured a bit like OzFest and Franconian Do with a couple of activities during the day and a dinner in the evening but with everything being pretty casual so that everyone has plenty of fun. The plan will be for welcome drinks and dinner on Thursday with the main Do Activities on Friday and Saturday. Sunday should be a lazy day to say farewell.
More details will follow but hopefully you can make it just 365 days (less than that now) from now.
Last edited by *A Flyer; May 23, 2016 at 5:53 am
#2
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CBR
Programs: QF WP, AC*G
Posts: 1,223
Program
Booking is now open at https://berlindo2016.eventbrite.com
Registration will be possible until 30 September unless numbers are reached early. Please register as early as possible to help make planning easier.
Thursday 6 October
Welcome Drinks
Time: 18:00
Venue: John Muir
Address: Skalitzerstrasse 51, Berlin-Kreuzberg
Closest Transport: U Gorlitzer Bahnhof
Please have cash to pay your tab.
Dinner
Time: 20:00
Venue: Hasir Ocakbasi Restaurant
Address: Adalbertstrasse 12, Berlin-Kreuzberg
Closest Transport: U Kottbusser Tor
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Friday 7 October
Berlin Express Tour
Time: 09:50 for 10:00
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Ending Point: Brandenburg Gate
Free time to find lunch and explore the area. Perhaps try and get a booking to visit the Reichstag Dome, head to the Memorial for the Murdered Jews of Europe or take a walk through the Tiergarten.
Rebel Berlin Tour
Time: 14:20 for 14:30
Meeting Point: Pariser Platz/Brandenburg Gate (outside French Embassy)
Closest Transport: S+U Brandenburger Tor
Ending Point: Schillingbrucke, Berlin-Friedichshain
Dinner
Time: 19:00
Venue: Weihenstephaner Berlin (Menu)
Address: Hackeschermarkt, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: S Hackeschermarkt
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Beer Tour
Leaving after we have finished dinner in two groups. We will head on different routes to avoid overcrowding.
Saturday 8 October
Tempelhof Airport Tour
Time: 09:15 at Meeting Point for 09:45 at Tempelhof Airport
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Tour Start: Tempelhof Airport General Aviation Terminal, Tempelhofer Damm 1-7
Closest Transport: U Platz der Luftbrucke
Free time to find lunch and return to Gendarmenmarkt for the Spies and Escapes Tour. Maybe checkout Mehringdamm (home to some of Berlin's most famous Currywurst (Curry 36) and Doner Kebap (Mustafa's)) or head back into the centre of town.
Spies and Escapes Tour
Time: 14:20 for 14:30
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Ending Point: Mauerpark
Dinner
Time: 19:30
Venue: Maximilians (The menu is available here)
Address: Friedrichstrasse 185-190, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte
Please have cash to pay for drinks.
Sunday 9 October
Brunch
Time: 09:30 at Meeting Point for 10:00 at Restaurant
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Venue: Hofbrau Berlin (www.hofbraeu-wirtshaus.de/en/bavarian-brunch/)
Address: Karl-Liebknecht-Strasse 30, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: S+U Alexanderplatz
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Cruise
Time: 12:15 for 12:30 (Do Not Be Late!)
Meeting Point: Stern und Kreis Schiffahrtstelle Reichstag Ufer/Friedrich Strasse
Closest Transport: S+U Friedrichstrasse
Booking is now open at https://berlindo2016.eventbrite.com
Registration will be possible until 30 September unless numbers are reached early. Please register as early as possible to help make planning easier.
Thursday 6 October
Welcome Drinks
Time: 18:00
Venue: John Muir
Address: Skalitzerstrasse 51, Berlin-Kreuzberg
Closest Transport: U Gorlitzer Bahnhof
Please have cash to pay your tab.
Dinner
Time: 20:00
Venue: Hasir Ocakbasi Restaurant
Address: Adalbertstrasse 12, Berlin-Kreuzberg
Closest Transport: U Kottbusser Tor
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Friday 7 October
Berlin Express Tour
Time: 09:50 for 10:00
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Ending Point: Brandenburg Gate
Free time to find lunch and explore the area. Perhaps try and get a booking to visit the Reichstag Dome, head to the Memorial for the Murdered Jews of Europe or take a walk through the Tiergarten.
Rebel Berlin Tour
Time: 14:20 for 14:30
Meeting Point: Pariser Platz/Brandenburg Gate (outside French Embassy)
Closest Transport: S+U Brandenburger Tor
Ending Point: Schillingbrucke, Berlin-Friedichshain
Dinner
Time: 19:00
Venue: Weihenstephaner Berlin (Menu)
Address: Hackeschermarkt, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: S Hackeschermarkt
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Beer Tour
Leaving after we have finished dinner in two groups. We will head on different routes to avoid overcrowding.
Saturday 8 October
Tempelhof Airport Tour
Time: 09:15 at Meeting Point for 09:45 at Tempelhof Airport
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Tour Start: Tempelhof Airport General Aviation Terminal, Tempelhofer Damm 1-7
Closest Transport: U Platz der Luftbrucke
Free time to find lunch and return to Gendarmenmarkt for the Spies and Escapes Tour. Maybe checkout Mehringdamm (home to some of Berlin's most famous Currywurst (Curry 36) and Doner Kebap (Mustafa's)) or head back into the centre of town.
Spies and Escapes Tour
Time: 14:20 for 14:30
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte (U2) Exit Charlottenstrasse
Ending Point: Mauerpark
Dinner
Time: 19:30
Venue: Maximilians (The menu is available here)
Address: Friedrichstrasse 185-190, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: U Stadtmitte
Please have cash to pay for drinks.
Sunday 9 October
Brunch
Time: 09:30 at Meeting Point for 10:00 at Restaurant
Meeting Point: Gendarmenmarkt (directly opposite Hilton hotel)
Venue: Hofbrau Berlin (www.hofbraeu-wirtshaus.de/en/bavarian-brunch/)
Address: Karl-Liebknecht-Strasse 30, Berlin-Mitte
Closest Transport: S+U Alexanderplatz
Please have cash or card to pay your tab.
Cruise
Time: 12:15 for 12:30 (Do Not Be Late!)
Meeting Point: Stern und Kreis Schiffahrtstelle Reichstag Ufer/Friedrich Strasse
Closest Transport: S+U Friedrichstrasse
Last edited by *A Flyer; Sep 29, 2016 at 1:42 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CBR
Programs: QF WP, AC*G
Posts: 1,223
Host (1)
*A Flyer
Platinum - Confirmed (50)
*A Flyer+1
anc RED-EYE
angra
Angust
arollins
arollins+1
bdnyc
beckoa
bettertoturnleftthanright
BOB W
Calchas
Cappex
cistavoda
EI147
El_Duderito
exilencfc
feethigh
flospi
GrjApp
gvdIAD
HamburgAround
HamburgAround+1
HPN-HRL
ixs
ixs +1
jackal
jolly.jumper
jswong
JY1024
kirkwoodj
klausa
lili
lynnevt
MAM88
NewbieRunner
nomadic.relief
nufnuf77
ORD-TGU
pfbloom
Polkacat
restlessinRNO
Sea777guy
the_happiness_store
UncleJed
UncleJed +1
violist
youseeme
ysolde
Ysolde+1
*A Flyer
Platinum - Confirmed (50)
*A Flyer+1
anc RED-EYE
angra
Angust
arollins
arollins+1
bdnyc
beckoa
bettertoturnleftthanright
BOB W
Calchas
Cappex
cistavoda
EI147
El_Duderito
exilencfc
feethigh
flospi
GrjApp
gvdIAD
HamburgAround
HamburgAround+1
HPN-HRL
ixs
ixs +1
jackal
jolly.jumper
jswong
JY1024
kirkwoodj
klausa
lili
lynnevt
MAM88
NewbieRunner
nomadic.relief
nufnuf77
ORD-TGU
pfbloom
Polkacat
restlessinRNO
Sea777guy
the_happiness_store
UncleJed
UncleJed +1
violist
youseeme
ysolde
Ysolde+1
Last edited by *A Flyer; Oct 2, 2016 at 1:46 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CBR
Programs: QF WP, AC*G
Posts: 1,223
Hotels
Berlin is well supplied with hotels from most of the major chains. The better hotels tend to be clustered in a few areas in and around Gendarmenmarkt (and the historic centre more generally), Potsdamer Platz and in the former West Berlin around the Kurfürstendamm and Zoo. Do Activities are likely to be focussed more on areas in the historic centre of Berlin and not around Kurfürstendamm.
Berlin is also well equipped with a variety of popular boutique hotels and cheaper local chains including Maritim and Motel One which can be good value options.
Flights
Thanks to the ongoing trouble building the perpetually soon-to-be-open Berlin Brandenburg Airport, Berlin is served by two airports, Tegel and Schönefeld. Most legacy carriers serve Tegel while easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian and some other carriers serve Schönefeld. Tegel is far more convenient to the city.
A taxi from Tegel to most hotels in the city centre will cost approximately €25 and takes 20 minutes. Public transportation is available using the TXL bus at a cost of €2.70.
A taxi from Schönefeld to most hotels in the city centre will cost approximately €35-40 and takes 45 minutes. Public transportation is available using the S-Bahn train at a cost of €3.30. The public transport ticket will allow you to connect to a bus, tram or U-Bahn line within 90 minutes.
Trains
This is Flyertalk but in some cases trains will be a sensible way to either come to or from Berlin. Deutsche Bahn run fast and reliable train services to Berlin from all major German cities. The InterCityExpress (ICE) trains can be an worthwhile from Frankfurt, Hamburg, Cologne, Düsseldorf, Munich and Hannover. Overnight trains are available from Amsterdam, Zürich, Vienna and Budapest.
Berlin is well supplied with hotels from most of the major chains. The better hotels tend to be clustered in a few areas in and around Gendarmenmarkt (and the historic centre more generally), Potsdamer Platz and in the former West Berlin around the Kurfürstendamm and Zoo. Do Activities are likely to be focussed more on areas in the historic centre of Berlin and not around Kurfürstendamm.
Berlin is also well equipped with a variety of popular boutique hotels and cheaper local chains including Maritim and Motel One which can be good value options.
Flights
Thanks to the ongoing trouble building the perpetually soon-to-be-open Berlin Brandenburg Airport, Berlin is served by two airports, Tegel and Schönefeld. Most legacy carriers serve Tegel while easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian and some other carriers serve Schönefeld. Tegel is far more convenient to the city.
A taxi from Tegel to most hotels in the city centre will cost approximately €25 and takes 20 minutes. Public transportation is available using the TXL bus at a cost of €2.70.
A taxi from Schönefeld to most hotels in the city centre will cost approximately €35-40 and takes 45 minutes. Public transportation is available using the S-Bahn train at a cost of €3.30. The public transport ticket will allow you to connect to a bus, tram or U-Bahn line within 90 minutes.
Trains
This is Flyertalk but in some cases trains will be a sensible way to either come to or from Berlin. Deutsche Bahn run fast and reliable train services to Berlin from all major German cities. The InterCityExpress (ICE) trains can be an worthwhile from Frankfurt, Hamburg, Cologne, Düsseldorf, Munich and Hannover. Overnight trains are available from Amsterdam, Zürich, Vienna and Budapest.
Last edited by *A Flyer; Jan 16, 2016 at 4:30 am
#8
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: STR
Programs: LH Sen, UA 1K, BA Gold, HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, IHG Platin Ambassador
Posts: 271
I'm interested very much.
Although I'm in Berlin very often, I would love to join the Do and appreciate meeting fellow Flyertalkers again.
Please count me as possible.
Although I'm in Berlin very often, I would love to join the Do and appreciate meeting fellow Flyertalkers again.
Please count me as possible.
#10
Senior Moderator and Moderator: American AAdvantage & TravelBuzz
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 10,417
Certainly add me to the "possible" list as well!
I, too, have never been to Berlin, so this may just be the impetus to do so.
I, too, have never been to Berlin, so this may just be the impetus to do so.
#12
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SEA
Programs: UA AS DL Hyatt SPG/Bonvoy HHonors
Posts: 2,008
My bet is that the new BER isn't open by then. I don't know if they have announced any dates and I haven't followed since they found that the roof structure isn't strong enough to support the fire ventilation equipment...